Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

On Cam's near interception


119 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post

Cmon guys, we cant "BLAME CAM"!!!!!!!!!!! WE CAN"T BLAME CAM!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Here is a capture from the pass to Smith that was nearly intercepted.

 

panthers-seahawks.jpg

 

Things I notice ...

 

3 defenders on the right with 2 options. 2 defenders on the left with 2 receivers.

 

A) Smitty is not open. He is covered up pretty well by the DB. The underneath taken away by the linebacker.

 

B ) Ginn, hidden behind fox logo, is open and looking for the ball. He ran a great route and got the needed separation.

 

C) Lafell apparently is neither open nor looking for the ball.

 

D) Pretty decent pass protection, except for Bell.

 

 

Watching the play, Cam never takes his eyes off Smith, sadly.

 

IDK, without seeing the replay im going to assume this was a hi-lo read, and ginn was probably the hi read and smitty the lo read. It looks like ginn is about to make his way on a comeback instead of a dig route so cam saw the Mike sitting and probably thought he was going to continue to sit or back up, either of which would be a not so good throw.

 

Second, in that picture steve smith is considered open. In the NFL it only takes one step to be considered wide open and smith has enough spacing for the right throw.. Cam threw it too inside if im not mistaken.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Cmon guys, we cant "BLAME CAM"!!!!!!!!!!! WE CAN"T BLAME CAM!!!


Nice contribution.



Anyways, this was one bad throw he made and w'ere acting like he made these kinda throws all game, c'mon man. Even Peyton makes these kind of throws sometimes.. Why can't we ever point out a positive throw or decision Cam has made? Why does it always have to be his worst throws? He showed major improvement in this game in regards to his decision making and accuracy but yet all we're focusing on is the few quips he made (believe it or not, Peyton didn't made a few bad thows on 3rd in the Baltimore game!).

Also, some people don't realize that when Cam "doesn't see" an open receiver like ginn or lafell it's not cuz he didn't "see" them but because they werent his primary reads in the play call or even a designed read at all. Now is this the case all the time? Of course not, sometimes he actually misses them as well. But all I'm really trying to say is some of you are all looking at this one bad play and portraying it like he did this all game or what not, when he actually played a really solid and efficient game overall. Could he have some made better reads and throws? Of course, but he also could have used some help from Olsen and DWill as well. This one bad play doesn't take away from the overall essential and drastic improvement cam has shown with his patience in the pocket as well as his accuracy and timing with his throws (especially against that tough Seattle secondary, even without browner.) Does Cam Newton, a QB who only had 1 year of high level CFB starting experience before he came into the league, still need to work on things? Of course he does. But has he shown enough improvement at the beginning of his third year as a pro to warrant enough confidence that he will eventually turn his immense raw talent into an immense amount of wins for this franchise (even if its with a new and hopefully more competent OC)? I personally think so, no matter how bad that play was. On to the bills!

/endpointlessinternetrant

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

again zod, give us pictures of how the play developed as well so we can see it happen. the ball is out of his hands, while Ginn is open.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

haven't read anything in this thread but smith was open, cam was too late on the throw.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Almost had a heart attack in the stands on that play, I saw Ginn wide open and was yelling "throw it to Ginn!" Also there was a play that Brandon Williams was wide open and Cam didn't even look his way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

This is why as cockeyed as it sounds, the best thing for us might be if Smitty gets a minor injury and misses a game or two

 

 

permaban

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

If we want Cam to go to other guys not named Steve Smith or Greg Olsen, maybe it would help if they could get open more than 1-2 times a damn game. Lafell has still yet to prove himself as a true #2, and he's in his contract year.

 

Then we sign guys like Hixon to supposedly come in as a #3, but he can't even get on the field. It's all Cam's fault though of course. Some people here truly deserve a quarterback like Jimmy Clausen, fair weather little cry babies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Sociology says that picture can be seen by 100 different people and there would be 100 different opinions on what is going on and what it means so meh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Shula probably sees something upstairs and is in Cam's ear... "look for Olsen to be open here". Cam just hasn't learned to look off yet to keep the defense guessing.

He will learn how to look off and keep the defense guessing he's only a rookie. oh wait.... My main thing with Cam is I haven't seen him really improve. it's seems like he may have hit his ceiling his rookie year. I hope that's not the case but it's what I fear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

He will learn how to look off and keep the defense guessing he's only a rookie. oh wait.... My main thing with Cam is I haven't seen him really improve. it's seems like he may have hit his ceiling his rookie year. I hope that's not the case but it's what I fear.

 

I have to respectfully disagree.

 

I have seen Cam become way better at reading coverage and way better at protecting the ball.  He does sometimes stare down receivers but he also goes through his progressions on most plays I pay attention to.  I'm impressed by his growth overall, and I think he has improved substantially from when he was a rookie.  His decision making has skyrocketed, I think.  He has also improved his accuracy and if this weekend is any indication he may be settling into fewer overthrows etc, too.  I am happy with his progress and I think he can only get better.

 

My primary concern is that Shula won't be capable of utilizing him as best as he could.  I'm not going to make a statement like that yet, but we'll see how the season goes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

He will learn how to look off and keep the defense guessing he's only a rookie. oh wait.... My main thing with Cam is I haven't seen him really improve. it's seems like he may have hit his ceiling his rookie year. I hope that's not the case but it's what I fear.

 

You heard it here first folks. Cam hasn't improved. What's his current trade value again?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I pulled up this play just b/c of this thread and wanted to try and see what Zod was seeing.

 

Cam did a couple things wrong here.

Mainly, it appears to this football novice, that he went through his reads MUCH too fast.  Now I don't know who is what option here, Lafell and Ginn ran pretty good routes. Lafell's guy actually stumbled a bit and Ginn planted Exceptionally well and the guy covering him bit on him running a GO route.

 

The REASON Cam threw it to Smitty was simple, it appears that Olsens cb #31 made a pick on the LBer that was covering the underneath route to Smith. Thus making Smitty open. 

 

The issue was 2 fold. 

Cam bailed on Lafell and Ginn early and threw the ball far enough behind Smith that Sherman (who is likely the best CB in the NFL right now) could make a play. 

 

It was a 3 step drop out of the shotgun and Cam "armed" it instead of using his whole body in proper technique.

 

 

So yeah, it was a bad play, but that doesn't mean much of shit in the big picture.

Cam passed 70%, not enough yards, and we lost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

again zod, give us pictures of how the play developed as well so we can see it happen. the ball is out of his hands, while Ginn is open.

 

See my post above. I think I break it down pretty well.

He will learn how to look off and keep the defense guessing he's only a rookie. oh wait.... My main thing with Cam is I haven't seen him really improve. it's seems like he may have hit his ceiling his rookie year. I hope that's not the case but it's what I fear.

Your dumbass is showing. 1) Cam has exceeded any reasonable expectations by leaps and bounds. He was and continues to be a work in progress. I have explained in detail how the Panthers haven't helped and most any reasonable fan will say he still has issues to work out.

 

Be smart and if you aren't work on making yourself smarter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Here is a capture from the pass to Smith that was nearly intercepted.

 

panthers-seahawks.jpg

 

Things I notice ...

 

3 defenders on the right with 2 options. 2 defenders on the left with 2 receivers.

 

A) Smitty is not open. He is covered up pretty well by the DB. The underneath taken away by the linebacker.

 

B ) Ginn, hidden behind fox logo, is open and looking for the ball. He ran a great route and got the needed separation.

 

C) Lafell apparently is neither open nor looking for the ball.

 

D) Pretty decent pass protection, except for Bell.

 

 

Watching the play, Cam never takes his eyes off Smith, sadly.

 

Also not pictured is there is another safety just off to the left of Ginn Jr.  He is just off screen.

 

Ginn was running a deep hitch it looked like.  He did have a little separation though.

 

The other thing Zod didn't tell you is that Sherman had slipped on the play and looked like he was beat, plus Smitty drifted up field before the ball arrived.

 

That is why snapshots aren't always good barometers on these things although it is admittedly fun
 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Im going to end up buying all 22 I know it :(

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

When Cam threw the ball, it definitely looked like Sherman was beat. But that guy is really fast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

When Cam threw the ball, it definitely looked like Sherman was beat. But that guy is really fast.

and has really long arms.

Most CB's in the NFL wouldnt make that play.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Im going to end up buying all 22 I know it :(

 

nfl gamerewind is the business!!!  it is as close to game film that a fan can get. all 22 with slow mo. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

When Cam threw the ball, it definitely looked like Sherman was beat. But that guy is really fast.

 

Not only that, but I think Smitty thought he was more open than he was because he started drifting up field.  If he stays on his route a little but longer or goes to meet the ball it would have been a reception or pass interference.

 

I think Smitty just thought he was more open because Sherman slipped and he was trying to get upfield.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I remember this play it was a bad one for cam, he stared down smitty the whole time I think,,,, ginn was open , its a timing route and it has to be there when he turns around, 

 

where the defenders are in this pic is irrelevant, as the ball would already be out of cams hands ,ideally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post


Cam passed 70%, not enough yards, and we lost.

 

I'm not a huge fan of "statistics", but rather on production. Stats don't lie, but it doesnt always tell everything.

 

We can talked all day about Cam's incredible passing percentage (70%), but he didn't make enough plays Sunday to win us the game. If we just wanted to look at stats wise, Matt Schaub has a better career passing completion of 64.5% compared to the 3x Super Bowl Champion QB Tom Brady's 63.7%. Does that make Schaub a better and more accurate passer than Brady? No way. We cant tell if a QB is completing his passes by making easy dump offs/check downs to the RBs or whatever by just reading statistics.

 

At the end of the day, it all comes down to who makes bigger plays to help his team win games. I am going to make the Newton/Kaepernick comparison all day long, bc those two are so much similar as a QB. The only differences is Kaepernick is a bigger threat as a game changer and a better pocket presence than Cam as of right now. Carolina's fans can cry and sulk all they want about Kaepernick thriving bc of Harbaugh compared to Cam with Rivera's. Fans need to face the reality that Kaep is a much better QB than Cam atm. The only place you'll find people arguing that Cam is better than Kaep is in the Carolinas.

 

Last Sunday, we probably played a tougher Defense with Seattle than Kaep with GB, but that doesnt mean poo. Kaep stand tall in the pocket and picked that GB defense apart for 400+ yards and 3 tds like a veteran QB who have done it for years. Cam on the other hand looked like he was forced to be "one dimensional" without the read-option.
 

I dont care about how many yards Cam throw for, run for, or with a 120% passer rating. If he doesnt make enough winning plays for us with his arm rather than his legs this year, we won't see the Playoffs anytime soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I'm not a huge fan of "statistics", but rather on production. Stats don't lie, but it doesnt always tell everything.

 

We can talked all day about Cam's incredible passing percentage (70%), but he didn't make enough plays Sunday to win us the game. If we just wanted to look at stats wise, Matt Schaub has a better career passing completion of 64.5% compared to the 3x Super Bowl Champion QB Tom Brady's 63.7%. Does that make Schaub a better and more accurate passer than Brady? No way. We cant tell if a QB is completing his passes by making easy dump offs/check downs to the RBs or whatever by just reading statistics.

 

At the end of the day, it all comes down to who makes bigger plays to help his team win games. I am going to make the Newton/Kaepernick comparison all day long, bc those two are so much similar as a QB. The only differences is Kaepernick is a bigger threat as a game changer and a better pocket presence than Cam as of right now. Carolina's fans can cry and sulk all they want about Kaepernick thriving bc of Harbaugh compared to Cam with Rivera's. Fans need to face the reality that Kaep is a much better QB than Cam atm. The only place you'll find people arguing that Cam is better than Kaep is in the Carolinas.

 

Last Sunday, we probably played a tougher Defense with Seattle than Kaep with GB, but that doesnt mean poo. Kaep stand tall in the pocket and picked that GB defense apart for 400+ yards and 3 tds like a veteran QB who have done it for years. Cam on the other hand looked like he was forced to be "one dimensional" without the read-option.
 

I dont care if Cam throws for 500 yards. If he doesnt make enough winning plays for us this year, we won't see the Playoffs anytime soon.

This is a lot of words that really don't say anything.

Kaep and Cam are similar, except that Cam is bigger, stronger, faster, and has higher upside.

You do this in your posts a ton and I'm still hoping you learn better sometime, see here:

 

Carolina's fans can cry and sulk all they want about Kaepernick thriving bc of Harbaugh compared to Cam with Rivera's. Fans need to face the reality that Kaep is a much better QB than Cam atm.

 

So stating facts is considered "Sulking and Crying" ?

Harbs is saved Alex Smith, he groomed Kaep, the San Fran OLine's BACKUPS are likely better than half of our OLine, Kaep has better playcalling, better Defense and one could argue better WRs/TE.

 

Please start doing some research before spewing out opinions based on your feels.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Yeah let's compare Kaepernick on arguably the best team in the NFL right now from top to bottom on both sides of the ball with one of the best coaches in the league to Cam, a makeshift o line, this receiver core, and Ron Rivera....

 

The sad thing about Chuck is, he is 100% serious with his statements. It's mind boggling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I love Kaep. I think he is awesome. I also praised RG3 last season. I love Russell Wilson and think he is a special guy.

The only two guys I don't gush praise on yet is Luck and Dalton.

But Cam had a good game and we played all in all a good game Sunday. We did enough to win but we didn't. That sucks and is getting old to lose these games, but it is still true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites