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The Pyramid Builders


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#31 PhillyB

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 07:08 PM

sorry, I had to pick up my son from school and watch his soccer practice. but anyway,

 

No, I am actually suggesting ideas proposed Dr. Ivan van Sertima, Dr Walter Neves, Dr. Joel Freeman, as well as Anthony T. Browder among many others.  I know nothing of the work of Tyler or Morgan so I have no opinion of their work.

 

As I stated before, this is not about ALL cultures stemming from a single group. (That possibility is still open however, you just have to go back far enough)  I am talking about a specific behaviour, culture and religion being repeated thousands of miles apart. As well as visual representations of the people that correspond with each culture. 

 

You always come across as an educated person, you have to admit that you have not argued against the theory. Instead you have simply attacked the idea that it would even be possible for these cultures to have interacted. I can only assume your reasoning is because you feel that they were "primitive". That is a very closeminded point of view. Consider this, is it possible for a child raised completely outside of the modern education system if given enough time to do something like conceptualize a boat?  They would still have experiences in nature of logs floating in water. The movement of the waves.  The power of the wind.  The brain power of man 10's of thousands of years ago is no different than our own.  And they would have had the benefit culture and education systems to guide each generation.

 

So it is possible that they could have had the knowledge to cross the Atlantic. Now does the archaelogical evidence support the theory? I contend that the statues, culture, religion, and skeletal remains highly suggest that this is the case. This is not about all pyramids in every place in the world. This is also not about something as generic as bows and arrows.  This a specific religion, mastery of astronomy, focus on a specific constellation and a specific pyramid type. With your arrogant dismissal and disdain for the idea you sound not unlike many of the other, ill just say closeminded posters here.  You definitely dont sound very scientific.

 

i hate saying something as generic as "read the book i suggested and then get back to me" but seriously... read the book i suggested and then get back to me.

 

also know that ivan van sertima's precolumbian contact theories have roundly been rejected by anyone that matters (as have gavin menzies's similar suggests regarding the chinese.) joel freeman has no viable experience in archaeology or anthropology unless i'm looking at the wrong guy, and anthony browder is roundly rejected as a crackpot because he insists on pushing crackpot archaeological heliocentrism. walter neves seems legit - especially since human diaspora in the americas is still being pieced together, especially in light of pre-clovis finds in north and south america - but i'd be interested in seeing what exactly it is he's supporting.

 

if you don't want your theory to be interpreted as ridiculous, don't cite crackpots in support of it.



#32 carpantherfan84

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 08:02 PM

i hate saying something as generic as "read the book i suggested and then get back to me" but seriously... read the book i suggested and then get back to me.

 

also know that ivan van sertima's precolumbian contact theories have roundly been rejected by anyone that matters (as have gavin menzies's similar suggests regarding the chinese.) joel freeman has no viable experience in archaeology or anthropology unless i'm looking at the wrong guy, and anthony browder is roundly rejected as a crackpot because he insists on pushing crackpot archaeological heliocentrism. walter neves seems legit - especially since human diaspora in the americas is still being pieced together, especially in light of pre-clovis finds in north and south america - but i'd be interested in seeing what exactly it is he's supporting.

 

if you don't want your theory to be interpreted as ridiculous, don't cite crackpots in support of it.

Soooo then you agree?

 

I know you spent the first few sentences stating that who I can only assume is "mainstream" (cough, eurocentric) archaeology has dismissed Dr. Sertima's and the others but since you have given Dr. Neves your all important blessing, I assume you are familiar with his study of skull nicknamed "Luzia" and her distinctly negroid features. He places her origins at pre 11,000 years ago which would coincide with the theory of Olmecs coming from Africa.  I am not trying to convince you.  It is no longer important to me if you agree, believe or whatever. You hold certain theories above others, even though you have constantly admitted that there is an eurocentric bias towards what is considered mainstream science. But if your only argument is

 

"guffaw, read the book!!!, cuz you dont know what I know"! 

 

then I am disappointed, I thought you better. Just remember that 100 years ago black holes "didn't exist"

And 10 years ago people found out that they can vomit.

 

I dont mean to equate physics with archaeology, I am simply stating that popular theories in science often bully other theories that are in fact correct.



#33 PhillyB

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 08:11 PM

Soooo then you agree?

 

I know you spent the first few sentences stating that who I can only assume is "mainstream" (cough, eurocentric) archaeology has dismissed Dr. Sertima's and the others but since you have given Dr. Neves your all important blessing, I assume you are familiar with his study of skull nicknamed "Luzia" and her distinctly negroid features. He places her origins at pre 11,000 years ago which would coincide with the theory of Olmecs coming from Africa.  I am not trying to convince you.  It is no longer important to me if you agree, believe or whatever. You hold certain theories above others, even though you have constantly admitted that there is an eurocentric bias towards what is considered mainstream science. But if your only argument is

 

"guffaw, read the book!!!, cuz you dont know what I know"! 

 

then I am disappointed, I thought you better. Just remember that 100 years ago black holes "didn't exist"

And 10 years ago people found out that they can vomit.

 

I dont mean to equate physics with archaeology, I am simply stating that popular theories in science often bully other theories that are in fact correct.

 

rofl these guys can't support their lunacy with anything other than speculation and cherry-picking of data so the dismiss everything else as eurocentric

 

you aren't engaging in a conversation here, you're arguing for a position in a field you know literally fuging nothing about because it appeals to you for whatever reason. you don't care about whether the facts support you, only the ability of a handful of people who profit off of people like you to quell your fears that the "mainstream eurocentric archaeologists" are right

 

do some actual research that doesn't involve ancient aliens and gavin menzies conspiracy theories and fuging kulturkreiss rebrands and get back to me



#34 carpantherfan84

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 08:43 PM

rofl these guys can't support their lunacy with anything other than speculation and cherry-picking of data so the dismiss everything else as eurocentric

 

you aren't engaging in a conversation here, you're arguing for a position in a field you know literally fuging nothing about because it appeals to you for whatever reason. you don't care about whether the facts support you, only the ability of a handful of people who profit off of people like you to quell your fears that the "mainstream eurocentric archaeologists" are right

 

do some actual research that doesn't involve ancient aliens and gavin menzies conspiracy theories and fuging kulturkreiss rebrands and get back to me

Seriously?

 

In your last post you agreed that "human diaspora" is as you put it "still being pieced together.  Lol yet the idea that there could be any AFRICAN influence is pissing you off. lol. I have to say I wouldn't have seen that coming from you.  THE REASON it is still being pieced together is because they are constantly finding evidence that disputes the Bering Strait theory.  These being things like human artifacts and remains that predate the ice age and the problem that in order for humans to have spread south only, there is a major problem crossing the mountains that "primitive hunter gatherers" would be hard pressed to accomplish. As well as the evidence of cultural mixing BEST explained by direct contact or influence, not random similarities. But you know all this.

 

YOU arent engaging in a conversation. You are doing what you always do. You swoop in to a topic throw some insults around using needlessly complex vocabulary no doubt to puff yourself up and garner compliments from people who literally have no idea what the fug you are talking about. But you rarely have any real point, and you instead arbitrarily combine pseudo-philosophy with useless rhetoric. All the while claiming intellectual high-ground with an arrogance unseen any where else in this forum.  If you want the conversation to be over stop insulting me and leave. Or we can continue throwing insults around. Its AALLL GOOD .

 

OR you can tell me specifically why it is not possible for Africans to have spread to across the Atlantic.  The idea that it 100 percent didn't happen is retarded and juvenile.  With all the traveling you claim and seminars you claim to spoke at you still werent there at the time. You take the research done by those you deem worthy, and cast aside the research of those you deem unworthy. Then you speculate as to what it all means. That is the science of Archaeology.



#35 mav1234

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 09:11 PM

What evidence is there that Africans spread across the Atlantic?  Your OP seems mostly conjecture (which is what most of the Tbox is so I am not attempting to offend you)



#36 Porn Shop Clerk

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 09:20 PM

LouisCKonhumanandtechnologicaladvancemen



#37 PhillyB

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 09:24 PM

Seriously?

 

In your last post you agreed that "human diaspora" is as you put it "still being pieced together.  Lol yet the idea that there could be any AFRICAN influence is pissing you off. lol. I have to say I wouldn't have seen that coming from you.  THE REASON it is still being pieced together is because they are constantly finding evidence that disputes the Bering Strait theory. 

 

i'm willing to wager you know literally nothing about theories of diaspora in the americas outside of "this professor i found online said africans were there first" which is why when i say "being pieced together" you don't understand what it is that's being pieced together exactly. "pieced together" doesn't mean "hey guys we literally have no fuging clue where these people came from, let's match bones and projectile points and poo and see what we've got k?" the biggest debate in this specific field currently is of chronology, not of origins. plenty of debate rages over whether or not pre-clovis people groups listed (with a current trend towards a definitive yes) rather than locations of origin (there are five locations of origin and migration patterns following them that have actual evidence existing to support them, and none of them are africa.)

 

but even this debate (not that it's even an actual debate, proponents of it just like to pretend it is just like georgio tsoukalos and gavin menzies pretend there's actually a debate as to whether or not their pseudoscience bears any relevance) should be separated from unilineal evolutionary theories (or specifically heliocentrism) because diasporic patterns actually have some merit to them as an open-ended debate. "all civilizations had contact with egypt" is unsubstantiated 3rd grade magic bullshit and shouldn't be placed in the same sentence.

 

i know i'm coming across as a complete arrogant asshole on all this, but seriously, you're barging into a field you know nothing whatsoever about and slinging your dick around based on a couple things you heard on this one website that sound cool and appeal to whatever sense of things makes you willing to latch onto them. you're in the military right? it would be the same thing if i beebopped onto a military base and got up in front of a bunch of marines and started insisting that the M16A2 is in fact NOT air-cooled and if you try to convince me otherwise you're just full of poo.

 

go read the book i recommended. if you're seriously interested in pursuing this it's the best way to orient yourself to the field if you're coming from the perspective of these sorts of "theories." if you're interested in methods i recommend colin renfrew's book on archaeological methods, and if you want to pursue a better understanding of human diaspora in the americas check out fagan's north american archaeology (and read the first quarter of the book) and do a search on worldcat or jstor or any other search engine for scholastic journals to see what's out there. don't just reject them because tony von africa told you they're ethnocentric when tony von africa's theories are literally ALL you know about the field to begin with, which means you could be latching onto an ignoramus without having anything to relate it to and properly orient yourself.

 

good luck.



#38 carpantherfan84

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 09:52 PM

What evidence is there that Africans spread across the Atlantic?  Your OP seems mostly conjecture (which is what most of the Tbox is so I am not attempting to offend you)

 

 

i'm willing to wager you know literally nothing about theories of diaspora in the americas outside of "this professor i found online said africans were there first" which is why when i say "being pieced together" you don't understand what it is that's being pieced together exactly. "pieced together" doesn't mean "hey guys we literally have no fuging clue where these people came from, let's match bones and projectile points and poo and see what we've got k?" the biggest debate in this specific field currently is of chronology, not of origins. plenty of debate rages over whether or not pre-clovis people groups listed (with a current trend towards a definitive yes) rather than locations of origin (there are five locations of origin and migration patterns following them that have actual evidence existing to support them, and none of them are africa.)

 

but even this debate (not that it's even an actual debate, proponents of it just like to pretend it is just like georgio tsoukalos and gavin menzies pretend there's actually a debate as to whether or not their pseudoscience bears any relevance) should be separated from unilineal evolutionary theories (or specifically heliocentrism) because diasporic patterns actually have some merit to them as an open-ended debate. "all civilizations had contact with egypt" is unsubstantiated 3rd grade magic bullshit and shouldn't be placed in the same sentence.

 

i know i'm coming across as a complete arrogant asshole on all this, but seriously, you're barging into a field you know nothing whatsoever about and slinging your dick around based on a couple things you heard on this one website that sound cool and appeal to whatever sense of things makes you willing to latch onto them. you're in the military right? it would be the same thing if i beebopped onto a military base and got up in front of a bunch of marines and started insisting that the M16A2 is in fact NOT air-cooled and if you try to convince me otherwise you're just full of poo.

 

go read the book i recommended. if you're seriously interested in pursuing this it's the best way to orient yourself to the field if you're coming from the perspective of these sorts of "theories." if you're interested in methods i recommend colin renfrew's book on archaeological methods, and if you want to pursue a better understanding of human diaspora in the americas check out fagan's north american archaeology (and read the first quarter of the book) and do a search on worldcat or jstor or any other search engine for scholastic journals to see what's out there. don't just reject them because tony von africa told you they're ethnocentric when tony von africa's theories are literally ALL you know about the field to begin with, which means you could be latching onto an ignoramus without having anything to relate it to and properly orient yourself.

 

good luck.

I have a 0430 wake up to an 800 meter swim and weight training so I am gonna be a little lazy with this my last post of the night.

 

My OP, and EVERY ARGUMENT I HAVE MADE IN HERE SINCE, has been that there are three cultures that share specific traits that leads me to believe that they are one in the same.  The statement that EVERY culture descends from egypt was never made by me. So stop saying that. Firstly, because I would have said Kemet, not Egypt as Egypt was a post greek invasion society. My evidence is the stark similarity of the cultures. In particular the worship of Orions belt, the knowledge of Astronomy, and the design of the pyramids and the faces of the artwork they used to describe themselves, in all three cultures.  I have never invoked the name of Tsouk-whoever or mentioned any aliens or other theory.  I think that the idea that something SOOOO specific and culturally taxing as building pyramids to align with a certain constellation that is not even viewed the same at each destination to have happened simultaneously and without any kind of cross cultural pollination is insane. This is not a question of archaeology IMO as much as it is question of common sense.  If it was a bow and arrow that shared some similarities, okay maybe. But we are talking pottery, art, buildings, religion, culture...

 

anyway, nothing else will be read tonight.



#39 teeray

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 10:12 PM

I have read this whole thread and have no idea what any of you are talking about.

Just wanted to say, Helloworld stop visiting white nationalist websites! No wonder you have some pent up anger :lol: . I get pissed off at that stuff and I am white.

I don't know how it is even useful except to explore the most radical minority of white people who perpetuate hate to try to lift their own low self esteem and feelings of inadequacy.

#40 Big A

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 10:14 PM

The DNA project traced racial evolution from all black originating in Africa and then breaking up into different groups as populations migrated and then evolved to the new climate.

https://genographic....geographic.com/





Also, the whole idea of pyramids as proof of contact between different cultures is flawed, they are not all the same nor are they even used in same way or mean the same.

#41 TANTRIC-NINJA

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 10:18 PM

Asians will say you are welcome!!

#42 Guest_HelloWorld_*

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 11:16 PM

You never did answer me if Africans of Haplogroup L3 are real Africans or not.

Of course they're real Africans. L3 originated in East Africa(also origin of mankind). And it's the line that gave birth to non-Africans that wants to kill Africans these days. Never before in nature where one species create it's own predator through hybridization with another species. Probably the biggest mistake Africans ever made was migrating out of Africa prematurely. This world could easily have been a harmonious homogeneously African with other big brow monkey types roaming around for our entertainment. My ancestors fugged up. Bring tears to my eyes a bit. Kind of sad.
 



#43 PhillyB

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 11:23 PM

Of course they're real Africans. L3 originated in East Africa(also origin of mankind). And it's the line that gave birth to non-Africans that wants to kill Africans these days. Never before in nature where one species create it's own predator through hybridization with another species. Probably the biggest mistake Africans ever made was migrating out of Africa prematurely. This world could easily have been a harmonious homogeneously African with other big brow monkey types roaming around for our entertainment. My ancestors fugged up. Bring tears to my eyes a bit. Kind of sad.
 

 

i was going to reply to this and then realized there is literally no way you're not trolling



#44 CarolinaCoolin

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 11:31 PM

i was going to reply to this and then realized there is literally no way you're not trolling


The last part is absolutely comical

#45 PhillyB

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 11:47 PM

My evidence is the stark similarity of the cultures.

 
that's not evidence



I think that the idea that something SOOOO specific and culturally taxing as building pyramids to align with a certain constellation that is not even viewed the same at each destination to have happened simultaneously and without any kind of cross cultural pollination is insane.


no it's not



This is not a question of archaeology IMO as much as it is question of common sense.


no it's not


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