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So... are the Offensive woes Rivera's fault?

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#1 Zod

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 05:23 AM

Who is to blame for the god awful offense? Rivera or Shula? Both?

 

My stance this offseason was this....

 


In the past Shula was overly conservative, unable to develop winning strategies, and unable to make any in game adjustments whatsoever.
 
We can only hope that over the past few years he has improved a great deal in these areas through working for Chud.

 

Many of you blasted me for it, calling it an unfair assessment.

 

Overly conservative - check

Unable to develop winning strategies - check

no effective in game adjustments - check

 

But my question is this, are you of the same opinion that these things are caused by Rivera as you were convinced Dungy caused them in Tampa Bay?

 

If Rivera were to have zero input of the offense on game days and let Shula call plays unbridled, would we have a better offense?



#2 CCS

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 05:34 AM

I'm tired of the coaching staff as a whole. I don't care whose fault it is I want them all gone.



#3 AceBoogie

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 05:36 AM

*
A WHOLE PIE!

Uh San Fran only scored 3 pts against Seattle and Brady looked like poo against the bills.

If Dwill doesn't fumble maybe we win the game. Or maybe the defense gives up another late td.
If the defense gets a stop at the end of the bills hey we win again.

My problem with this team is that instead of getting Cam some help. They build the defense up. So I don't want to hear they only got fgs and not tds. That's play calling and lack of talent mainly on the offensive line.

It all falls down on Rivera. He wanted the defense built up he said it from day 1 he would stick to what he knows and thats all he knows is defense. The best offensive mind we have is Shula?? That's not going to get it done. Rivera wanted defense so the defense needs to get it done at the end of games.

#4 rodeo

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 05:50 AM

I don't think our playcalling was too conservative against the BIlls. We passed annoyingly on almost every 3rd and short and called plenty of deep passes.

 

The situational decisions were too conservative. Probably the 4th or 5th time that Rivera has cost us a game by punting or kicking on 4th and short when we could put the game away by going for it.

 

The playcalling was bad, but I wouldn't describe it as conservative. Shula called plays with slow developing routes, where the o-line had to hold their blocks while receivers ran 15 yards deep and made their moves and their cuts and tried to get open. They formed a pocket for Cam, but they were unable to hold it long enough for the plays that Shula was calling.

 

The two scoring drives both happened when Shula sped up the playcalling, called quick passes (not even necessarily short routes, just ones that weren't so involved and slow), and Cam was able to get the ball out efficiently without getting hit on every snap.

 

After those scoring drives happened, Shula was unable to look at them and see what worked and what didn't, so he went right back to slowing down the pace and the offense collapsed again.

 

There was also a problem with actually getting to the line of scrimmage. Even when we were running the no huddle, it seemed like Cam was racing the clock trying to read the protections and call them out and snap the ball. I don't know if Shula was slow to get the play calls in, or the team was apathetic about getting up to the line, but they looked like snails compared to the Seahawks or 49ers or other teams running a lot of no huddle and snap the ball with 10 seconds left on the clock. The whole point of a no huddle is to catch the defense off guard. It defeats the entire purpose if you let the playclock get to 01 or 00 before you snap it anyways.



#5 Zod

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 05:55 AM

The two scoring drives both happened when Shula sped up the playcalling, called quick passes (not even necessarily short routes, just ones that weren't so involved and slow), and Cam was able to get the ball out efficiently without getting hit on every snap.

 

After those scoring drives happened, Shula was unable to look at them and see what worked and what didn't, so he went right back to slowing down the pace and the offense collapsed again.

 

Bingo.



#6 AceBoogie

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 05:59 AM

Who you think tells him to slow it down?

#7 rodeo

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 06:01 AM

Who you think tells him to slow it down?

 

I highly doubt Rivera got on the headset and was like "woah slow it down cowboy" after they scored. Shula had a gameplan, and Rivera stuck with it. The sideline reporter at halftime flat out said she spoke with Rivera and he said they were sticking to the gameplan in the second half but "have to execute better."



#8 chknwing

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 06:01 AM

as much as people want to blame Rivera for his lack of coaching skills, truth be told, DG put the game in Riveras hands by not signing any OLine help.  6 fuging sacks and could have been so many more if cam was not as quick and elusive as he is.  The offensive line was simply horrible. Cam ran for his life the whole game.  The fact they scored 23 points is a miracle. 

 



#9 Marguide

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 06:06 AM

Rivera is the guy that decided Shula was our best option for OC.

 

He has to live or die with that decision.



#10 rodeo

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 06:07 AM

as much as people want to blame Rivera for his lack of coaching skills, truth be told, DG put the game in Riveras hands by not signing any OLine help.  6 fuging sacks and could have been so many more if cam was not as quick and elusive as he is.  The offensive line was simply horrible. Cam ran for his life the whole game.  The fact they scored 23 points is a miracle. 

 

There are ways to make an offense work with the o-line we have. Especially when you have players like Ginn and Smith and Olsen and a laser rocket arm like Cam's. We showed that on the two scoring drives. It was excellent, efficient, impressive football. Cam wasn't pressured because he had receivers open right away instead of waiting for the route to develop and as a result he was close to perfect.

 

You scheme to have success with the players you have. You don't create a scheme independent of your players and then try to shove them into it. We had enough of that last year with Chud trying to force our RBs to fit the option.

 

Shula decided (probably with pressure from both Rivera and the media/fans) that he was gonna be "aggressive" this week with passes down field and more read option stuff. Both of these things translate to slow developing plays where the o-line has to hold a block. Instead of saying "This is the plan, whether the line can pull it off or not," he should have said "Let's come up with a plan to work around our line and get the most out of our players."



#11 Zod

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 06:08 AM

Rivera is the guy that decided Shula was our best option for OC.

 

He has to live or die with that decision.

 

Very true.



#12 Estrada

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 06:08 AM

Marguide, on 16 Sept 2013 - 07:06 AM, said:snapback.png

Rivera is the guy that decided Shula was our best option for OC.

 

He has to live or die with that decision.

This. Rivera chose Shula. Both of them



#13 footballisasport

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 06:38 AM

I don't know whose fault it is.  But as an Observer, for the past three seasons, this team has managed to find ways to stumble out of the gates instead of start off their season with a bang. I don't know if it's psychological, coaching staff, or no real Vet leadership to help set the right tone but NASA, the Panthers have a problem.

 

It's now starting to feel like every team that plays the Panthers want to win more than they do. Their energy level looks so different vs. the Panthers. It seems the Panthers just want to get through a game and not lose. Playing not to lose will give you more loses than wins. I also believe that way to much of the focus is on one part of this team. It seems you folks have become so dependent on your team's Offense that as so as they show any signs of weakness the rest of the team fall apart. That should not be the case.



#14 footballisasport

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 07:03 AM

There are ways to make an offense work with the o-line we have. Especially when you have players like Ginn and Smith and Olsen and a laser rocket arm like Cam's. We showed that on the two scoring drives. It was excellent, efficient, impressive football. Cam wasn't pressured because he had receivers open right away instead of waiting for the route to develop and as a result he was close to perfect.

 

You scheme to have success with the players you have. You don't create a scheme independent of your players and then try to shove them into it. We had enough of that last year with Chud trying to force our RBs to fit the option.

 

Shula decided (probably with pressure from both Rivera and the media/fans) that he was gonna be "aggressive" this week with passes down field and more read option stuff. Both of these things translate to slow developing plays where the o-line has to hold a block. Instead of saying "This is the plan, whether the line can pull it off or not," he should have said "Let's come up with a plan to work around our line and get the most out of our players."

 

And there lies the ultimate problem with not only this team, but the mentality of way to many of you on this site. We can win because we have about five guys on the Offense who can do it all. Just because Cam is athletic doesn't mean everyone shouldn't be out there doing everything to earn their keep. As I've stated before, you guys put way to much expection on Cam. U want to preserve your QB, not wear him out running from other teams defense because you folks are more than happy to settle for mediocrity from the rest of the team.

 

Here is an example to counter your logic. I was watching the Skins vs. Packers game where the Rogers was putting a nice beat down on RG III and the Skins. The first thing that came out of one of the Analysts mouth was Rogers needing more protection from his O-line. Mind you, Rogers had an over 400 yard game. He was kicking butt and taking names but he was sacked 4 times and in the eyes of those Analysts, those were four to many.

 

Another example of the importance of EVERYONE doing their job and not leaving everything up to the QB. The Gaints game. After the Broncos vs. Gaints game, one of the Analyst stated that the problem with Eli throwing so many INTS was because there is way too much pressure on him to help his team because the defense was/is not stepping up. He is feeling the pressure to carry the Giants. Yet, with some of you on here, you're okay with hodge podge of players who is suppose to protect Cam. You didn't seem to have much of a sense of concern with how your defense was playing the past two season and since they have finally showed up some this season, you're ready to give them gold medals. But, you expects SO much more out of one human being and a couple of others, while settling for mediocrity from the rest. Why is that?

 

From what I've observed with the media, the Panthers aren't a team they have chosen to succeed in the NFL so they are not going to spend a lot of time stating what it the real obvioius deal with this team. Instead they will simply play the Rable-Rousers and let you fans dictate what their talking points will be. They also have made it more than clear that they don't care for Cam because he does not fit their image of a perfect QB despite his talents. So, they while they will scream at the teams and fans for them to do more to protect the livelihood of their Franchised QB, they are more than happy to sit and let the Panthers and fans destroy Cam both physically and mentally. They have already seen what you guys did with other QBs.



#15 rayzor

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 07:12 AM

ultimately its on rivera. his team. his philosophy. his coaches. his game plan. his pace. his game management decisions. his decision to hire shula.

 

we have a tendency of replacing people that need to be replaced with less talented options.

 

from kasay to mare.

from fox to rivera.

from chud to shula.

 

i hope that wasn't the case with the GM.





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