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Why do you believe in God?


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#136 stirs

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 07:12 PM

If God knew what you were going to order off the menu, does that also mean he made you order sushi?



#137 mav1234

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 07:18 PM

If God knew what you were going to order off the menu, does that also mean he made you order sushi?

 

If God had made me someone that would want sushi at that point in time, yes.

 

If he made me a certain way, and he was all knowing, he had to know that "certain way" would lead to me making choices.  Unless he isn't omniscient.



#138 Cat

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 07:23 PM

Omniscience and Omnipotence are two attributes then, that a God cannot have, in your opinion or it is an illusion.

 

So way back to my original question that Cat could/would not answer, you say that by virtue of being God, does not necessarily mean that he can set up or create what he wants and how he wants it. 

 

It's because you never defined  the attributes of your god. You guys keep talking past each other because you have yet to define if he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, timeless, non material, etc. etc.

 

 

You can't communicate well without clear definitions of terms.



#139 Cat

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 07:28 PM

You could have a deity of sorts, as deity itself does not require omnipotence necessarily, but if you've got an omnipotent deterministic deity you can't possibly have free will, it's an illusion.

 

I think you could have a deity,  we just wouldn't consider him moral or loving.



#140 Matthias

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 07:32 PM

Just like the title says, why do you believe in God? I enjoy hearing individuals logic and reasoning behind god. I also enjoy hearing how and when they found the faith and why they believe in it. Tell me whatever is on your mind about Religion. I love hearing everyone's personal stories.

 

I'd like to finish up by saying.. I am not here to start a fight or attack another persons Religion. I do not believe in a Religion but, I can neither confirm nor deny a god exists. I am simply Agnostic. I just want to hear what people have to say.

 

 

 

Why does a person believe in God?  Is the question asking why do you believe God exists, or why do you believe in God as in trust Him?



#141 mav1234

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 07:39 PM

I think you could have a deity,  we just wouldn't consider him moral or loving.

 

It's not about moral or loving in my example, though you're right.  It's impossible to have free will if you have a god that created everything and knows what will happen with everything, because that god created everything knowing what would happen - thus the illusion of free will.  so even if god didn't plop down from cosmic superland and say "HITLER BE EVIL," god did create the circumstances, the life, the world, the everything that created hitler and at once upon creation knew that this would lead to hitler.



#142 chubs2496

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 07:50 PM

It's not about moral or loving in my example, though you're right. It's impossible to have free will if you have a god that created everything and knows what will happen with everything, because that god created everything knowing what would happen - thus the illusion of free will. so even if god didn't plop down from cosmic superland and say "HITLER BE EVIL," god did create the circumstances, the life, the world, the everything that created hitler and at once upon creation knew that this would lead to hitler.


From what u understand and take from the bible is that god flooded the earth. Said he would not do it again and interfere IMO.

So that being said he will allow evil. Even tho it's evil and he knows it will happen. Bc the evil doings will be judged on judgement day and pay for what they have done. The innocent people and believers will be taken care of and made full with joy. So yes I believe that he knows all, is all. And allows evil to happen and what not but still can allow free will. Otherwise we are just mindless zombies who's life's are pre determined.

U ask me to define my god. I can't do that. U can't fathom what he's like. He can be anything and everything. That's my opinion. I honestly don't wanna argue and debate about it. That's my opinion.

#143 PhillyB

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 07:54 PM

He can be anything and everything

 

god: literally anything and everything you want him to be!

 

perhaps your most accurate post on these boards



#144 Jase

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 07:57 PM

if god is omnipotent, does he have the ability to limit his own power?

 

This is what happens when you try to debate a paradoxical figure in logical terms.

 

Like trying to explain quantum mechanics with a block of wood and a spring. 



#145 chubs2496

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:01 PM

god: literally anything and everything you want him to be!

perhaps your most accurate post on these boards


Listen I never wanted to get in a shouting match and argument over any of this. But when u believe in something and u have faith in it and someone comes along and critizes you for it and tries to make u feel like a idiot for it then yeah I take offense. I have my right to my religion and beliefs the same as u.

Now about the gay rights and what not. I honestly believe that people mis understood what and how I meant it. I used bad terms to explain my points when it came to getting my point across about being gay and my beliefs on that.

But yet I'm still here and have my beliefs. I know many with laugh and mock me and say my beliefs are idiotic. But you guys are nothing to me and it dosent bother me. The same as I am nothing to you.

I'm not a smart man(forest gump) and I don't proclaim to be and act as such. But I'm a god hearted caring person and would give each as every one of you the shirt off my back, stop if you were broke down and help any way I can. I believe that I deserve just a little bit of respect. And I will give u respect as well. I acknowledged your thoughts and beliefs. Although they aren't mine I accept that those are your feelings on the situation. So lets just move on Philly.

#146 I Mean He Was Found Guilty

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:07 PM

It's because you never defined  the attributes of your god. You guys keep talking past each other because you have yet to define if he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, timeless, non material, etc. etc.

 

 

You can't communicate well without clear definitions of terms.

 

step one of any kind of discussion like this should consist of a theist defining his or her god's attributes from the outset.  it's a common tactic that apologists like to use-making an atheist define and answer questions about god for them by opening up with a bunch of hypotheticals and open ended questions.  then they can come back and ream them out for making positive claims about something they "don't believe exists".



#147 stirs

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:08 PM

reaming out occured here?

 

also, what are the apologists you refer to?

 

I was just sparring with Cat and Mav.  know what an apologist is, but never knew there was a routine or steps



#148 mav1234

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:09 PM

so do you want to define your deity, stirs?



#149 stirs

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:14 PM

so do you want to define your deity, stirs?

 

Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent
 



#150 stirs

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:17 PM

so do you want to define your deity, stirs?

 

Obviously, not a Panther fan.
 




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