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#31 ecu88

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 09:30 PM

In the infamous words of Vice President Dick Cheney:

"Deficits don't matter."

Think about this: How do we EVER pay off the Debt if the moment we take in enough in taxes to start paying it off, Republicans use it as an excuse for tax cuts?


I do not like Bush, stupid Iraq war, but he did inherit an economy that was just getting out of a recession at the end of Clinton's second term. Then 9/11 happen so a shock hit the market and liberals tend to forget that Clinton borrowed money internally which allowed for a 'surplus' (shady accounting in my opinion). There was not one time that our debt went down during Clinton's presidency. The last president that actually decreased the debt was Einsenhower and that was only for a brief moment.

#32 Floppin

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 09:35 PM

I do not like Bush, stupid Iraq war, but he did inherit an economy that was just getting out of a recession at the end of Clinton's second term. Then 9/11 happen so a shock hit the market and liberals tend to forget that Clinton borrowed money internally which allowed for a 'surplus' (shady accounting in my opinion). There was not one time that our debt went down during Clinton's presidency. The last president that actually decreased the debt was Einsenhower and that was only for a brief moment.

 

9/11 had absolutely nothing to do with the downfall of the economy under the Bush Presidency. 9/11 provided a short lived shock to the world-wide market, but nothing long term and it certainly shouldn't be used as an excuse/reason for the floundering economy since. That's nothing but correlative argument and it's absolutely in error. 



#33 ecu88

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 09:38 PM

I wonder how many people on this board thinks FDR got the United States out of the depression in the 30's.

#34 ecu88

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 09:41 PM

9/11 had absolutely nothing to do with the downfall of the economy under the Bush Presidency. 9/11 provided a short lived shock to the world-wide market, but nothing long term and it certainly shouldn't be used as an excuse/reason for the floundering economy since. That's nothing but correlative argument and it's absolutely in error.


Maybe but it was a back to back hit to a stuggling economy due the false tech bubble. You discounted the confidence of the economy during 9/11. Interest rates were played with to get the economy going again.

#35 NanuqoftheNorth

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 09:41 PM

Actually Hillary had the framework done years ago which was probably modelled under what Ted Kennedy envisioned.

 

Wrong.

 

The ACA was originally devised by the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank.

 

James Taranto, who writes the Wall Street Journal’s excellent “Best of the Web” column, put forth a lengthy and informative discussion yesterday on the conservative origins of the individual mandate, whose inclusion in Obamacare is today its most controversial feature on the Right.  http://www.forbes.co...vidual-mandate/

 

 

 

Here is Newt and Mitt discussing it further at a Republican debate:

 

This came up at Tuesday’s Western Republican Leadership Conference Debate, where Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich tussled on the question:

ROMNEY: Actually, Newt, we got the idea of an individual mandate from you.

GINGRICH: That’s not true. You got it from the Heritage Foundation.

ROMNEY: Yes, we got it from you, and you got it from the Heritage Foundation and from you.

GINGRICH: Wait a second. What you just said is not true. You did not get that from me. You got it from the Heritage Foundation.

ROMNEY: And you never supported them?

GINGRICH: I agree with them, but I’m just saying, what you said to this audience just now plain wasn’t true.

(CROSSTALK)

ROMNEY: OK. Let me ask, have you supported in the past an individual mandate?

GINGRICH: I absolutely did with the Heritage Foundation against Hillarycare.

ROMNEY: You did support an individual mandate?

ROMNEY: Oh, OK. That’s what I’m saying. We got the idea from you and the Heritage Foundation.

GINGRICH: OK. A little broader.

ROMNEY: OK.

 

 

Here is another witness to the fact that the GOP was for the Affordable Care Act long before President Obama was in the White House.

T

 

Taranto, writes that he was there when the Heritage Foundation was promoting the mandate:  

 

"Heritage did put forward the idea of an individual mandate, though it predated HillaryCare by several years. We know this because we were there: In 1988-90, we were employed at Heritage as a public relations associate (a junior writer and editor), and we wrote at least one press release for a publication touting Heritage’s plan for comprehensive legislation to provide universal “quality, affordable health care.”

 

Read more here in the original Forbes article (you know that famous bastion of liberal causes).

http://www.forbes.co...vidual-mandate/

 



#36 ecu88

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 09:42 PM

You just Gingriched me Hahahaha no comment. I think moon stations for our citizens are near in our future smh

#37 Floppin

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 09:44 PM

I wonder how many people on this board thinks FDR got the United States out of the depression in the 30's.

Probably similar to the amount of people that believe that supply-side economics is actually a sound economic policy. 



#38 NanuqoftheNorth

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 09:47 PM

You just Gingriched me Hahahaha no comment. I think moon stations for our citizens are near in our future smh

 

Don't blame me for the clown car of candidates the GOP consistently puts forward every four years. 

 

This is precisely why I'm an independent and no longer a member of the GOP. 



#39 ecu88

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 09:51 PM

We have an addictive society to the feds policy of cheap money through artificially low interest rates. When the music stops playing who will be left standing with propped markets come crashing down....hard working citizens to pay for the greed of the politics between the federal reserve and the government. These temporary gdp highs will prove false once again. Just like every bubble before hand there will be a great deal of destruction of our wealth and this time the bubble might be the bond market which could be fatal.

#40 ecu88

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 09:54 PM

Probably similar to the amount of people that believe that supply-side economics is actually a sound economic policy.


Actually I am a neutral economist in the sense that not Say's law nor Keynes view is correct for each has a fallacy for discounting the other. Pure irony! Our nation provided the world goods during WWII which got us out of the depression and what is embarrassing FDR went through a recession in middle of the depression recovery.

#41 ecu88

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 09:57 PM

Supply-side, Keynesian economics two views same coin.....

#42 ecu88

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 09:58 PM

How many constitutionalist are on this board? I hope I am not the only one lol

#43 ARSEN

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 10:02 PM

Who gives a fug if they shutdown... They did nothing to help our country in anyway.

They will avoid shutdown in the last minute by giving themselves bonuses and pay raises for their excellent work.

#44 NanuqoftheNorth

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 10:14 PM

Actually I am a neutral economist in the sense that not Say's law nor Keynes view is correct for each has a fallacy for discounting the other. Pure irony! Our nation provided the world goods during WWII which got us out of the depression and what is embarrassing FDR went through a recession in middle of the depression recovery.

 

Economists still do not agree on the many aspects of The Great Depression much less our current economic issues, but here is another take on the economic down turn in the late 1930s:

Relapse Caused by Austerity Measures

What about the relapse in 1937/38? By 1936 many economists and financial experts (notably FDR’s Treasury Secretary, Henry Morgenthau) feared the country would go bankrupt if the government kept deficit-spending (sound familiar?). And after all, they argued, the government deficits had “pump-primed” the economy. The private sector could now take off on its own and get back to close to the full employment level of 1928-early 1929.

 

Consequently, Roosevelt ran (in 1936) on a platform that he would try to reduce, if not eliminate, the deficit. He won the election by a landslide — understandably, as the U.S. was out of depression by 1937. True to his campaign promise, government spending was cut significantly in 1937 and 1938, and taxes were raised to “fund” the new Social Security program. By 1938 Roosevelt submitted a budget in which the deficit was virtually eliminated (0.1% of GDP). The resultant economic relapse, based on efforts to balance the budget, exacerbated by a nonsensically tight monetary policy brought on by the Fed, duly followed.

 

This is unsurprising. Any type of fiscal austerity during a period of economic slowdown, whether via government spending cuts or higher taxes, will indeed depress economic activity.

http://www.roosevelt...al-policy-works



#45 ecu88

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 10:23 PM

Economists still do not agree on the many aspects of The Great Depression much less our current economic issues, but here is another take on the economic down turn in the late 1930s:


So you are arguing for an economy that should be propped by our government to ever inflate hard working citizens money into worthless bills or tax for a safety net which is problem of today? Keyword you stated was no deficits, you know why, every country in Europe was in wartime production. USA was producing for those countries when war broke out.


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