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What (if anything) should a civilized society provide its citizens?


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#1 PhillyB

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 12:47 PM

I'm interested in having a constructive dialogue on this topic. I tried starting one on Facebook and within about three posts it devolved hopelessly into ACA-debate-spawned rage (i strongly suspect) about entitlements and how bad socialism is, which is not where i wanted it to go.

 

obviously this is the tinderbox so it's likely to go there in less than three posts (and maybe i'm foolish for assuming it shouldn't) but i'll give it a shot anyway. but seriously, in a vacuum - not considering any particular country as a case example, and hopefully eschewing current ideological allies as inherent in the answer (in other words, don't come in with repub or dem propaganda plz and thnx) what would you say a civilized society should provide its citizens?

 

how do you define a civilized society?

 

what elements are up for consideration as part of one?

 

if some things are a right at birth, why are not others?

 

if certain of these elements are provided collectively by a society, why are they given priority over others?

 

 

 

these are just a few pertinent questions; feel free to explore them in as much depth and breadth as you like.



#2 SZ James

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 12:59 PM

Infrastructure, protection (afforded equally to all citizens), healthcare, equality, federal assistance, and liberties.

Off the top of my dome

#3 Mr. Scot

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 01:14 PM

Speaking specifically of America...

 

On the federal level, essential services only.  Police (yes, I'd be fine with a nationalized police force), fire, military, disaster relief...essentially anything protective.

 

At the state level, infrastructure, education (voucher style) and health care.  I'm okay with the idea of government health care, but only at the state level and only if doctors are the ones making the medical decisions.  No bureaucrats allowed.  Disability benefits only for those who actually, physically can't work.

 

Would also throw in that if it were up to me, Id do away with federal income tax.  Let the state tax citizens only in whatever way it chooses.  Let the federal government draw their money from the states.

 

I would pretty much reduce the federal government to a shell of itself.

 

 

 

 



#4 Guest_Spider Monkey_*

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 01:34 PM

A whole lot less than what they do.

#5 Guest_Spider Monkey_*

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 01:36 PM

Speaking specifically of America...

On the federal level, essential services only. Police (yes, I'd be fine with a nationalized police force), fire, military, disaster relief...essentially anything protective.

At the state level, infrastructure, education (voucher style) and health care. I'm okay with the idea of government health care, but only at the state level and only if doctors are the ones making the medical decisions. No bureaucrats allowed. Disability benefits only for those who actually, physically or mentally can't work.

Would also throw in that if it were up to me, Id do away with federal income tax. Let the state tax citizens only in whatever way it chooses. Let the federal government draw their money from the states.

I would pretty much reduce the federal government to a shell of itself.


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#6 PhillyB

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 01:46 PM

let me reframe the question.

 

to what elements of a civilized society should every citizen, regardless of social status, have equal access?



#7 P.I.A

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 02:02 PM

Protection, infrastructure, unbiased (as possible) politik, and a monopoly-free market.

#8 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 02:14 PM

lol @ no federal income tax. good luck supporting yourselves, red states



#9 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 02:20 PM

let me reframe the question.

 

to what elements of a civilized society should every citizen, regardless of social status, have equal access?

 

equal availability of food, shelter, education, healthcare

 

oh and work and leisure time. there's no reason for workers to work 40 hours a week for minimum wage just for the privilege of still being destitute. with recent advances in technology and automation, and subsequent gains in productivity, we could feasibly reach full employment with the bulk of workers making more money and working less hours.



#10 Guest_Spider Monkey_*

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 03:14 PM

lol @ no federal income tax. good luck supporting yourselves, red states


I don't need big brother's support in every aspect of my life. I know how to support and take care of myself.

#11 rodeo

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 03:25 PM

I don't need big brother's support in every aspect of my life. I know how to support and take care of myself.

 

You may, but your state does not.



#12 PhillyB

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 03:28 PM

"i don't need no government in a complex state level society" is one of the single biggest follies i have ever seen propagated in public sentiment.

 

if people would stop framing the question as "government or not government" and instead frame it "to what extent government" we'd be doing a lot better as far as national dialogue is concerned



#13 boostownsme

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 03:44 PM

lol @ no federal income tax. good luck supporting yourselves, red states

 

I wonder how we ever survived as a nation the first oh, close to 150 years without a federal income tax?



#14 TheRumGone

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 04:00 PM

I wonder how we ever survived as a nation the first oh, close to 150 years without a federal income tax?

 

world (u.s.) is much more complex than it was those first 150 years



#15 CatofWar

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 04:29 PM

The protection of life, liberty and property.


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