Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

What (if anything) should a civilized society provide its citizens?


  • Please log in to reply
29 replies to this topic

#11 rodeo

rodeo

    Keelah se'lai

  • Joined: 24-November 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 16,820
  • Reputation: 4,804
HUDDLER

Posted 05 October 2013 - 03:25 PM

I don't need big brother's support in every aspect of my life. I know how to support and take care of myself.

 

You may, but your state does not.



#12 PhillyB

PhillyB

    sườn núi phía đông thứ ba của mặt trời

  • Joined: 29-November 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 22,942
  • Reputation: 18,366
  • Locationthird spur east of the sun
HUDDLER

Posted 05 October 2013 - 03:28 PM

"i don't need no government in a complex state level society" is one of the single biggest follies i have ever seen propagated in public sentiment.

 

if people would stop framing the question as "government or not government" and instead frame it "to what extent government" we'd be doing a lot better as far as national dialogue is concerned



#13 boostownsme

boostownsme

    Junior Member

  • Joined: 04-December 11
  • PipPipPipPip
  • posts: 194
  • Reputation: 44
HUDDLER

Posted 05 October 2013 - 03:44 PM

lol @ no federal income tax. good luck supporting yourselves, red states

 

I wonder how we ever survived as a nation the first oh, close to 150 years without a federal income tax?



#14 TheRumGone

TheRumGone

    mountain man

  • Joined: 06-December 12
  • posts: 11,395
  • Reputation: 9,256
  • LocationAsheville, NC
SUPPORTER

Posted 05 October 2013 - 04:00 PM

I wonder how we ever survived as a nation the first oh, close to 150 years without a federal income tax?

 

world (u.s.) is much more complex than it was those first 150 years



#15 CatofWar

CatofWar

    Join, or Die

  • Joined: 24-March 12
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 3,487
  • Reputation: 865
  • LocationGitmo
HUDDLER

Posted 05 October 2013 - 04:29 PM

The protection of life, liberty and property.

#16 stirs

stirs

    I Reckon So

  • Joined: 01-December 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 12,073
  • Reputation: 1,997
HUDDLER

Posted 05 October 2013 - 04:31 PM

The gov should provide

Freedom

Protection

Equality and Access

Flat Tax or Fair Tax that cannot be manipulated

Education opportunities, whether public or private with everyone getting to go where the best education for their kids is offered

 

Should not provide

 

Anything beyond the basic needs program for food and shelter

 

 

 

 



#17 PhillyB

PhillyB

    sườn núi phía đông thứ ba của mặt trời

  • Joined: 29-November 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 22,942
  • Reputation: 18,366
  • Locationthird spur east of the sun
HUDDLER

Posted 05 October 2013 - 04:42 PM

Equality and Access

 

what elements of society do you propose all citizens have equal access to?



#18 stirs

stirs

    I Reckon So

  • Joined: 01-December 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 12,073
  • Reputation: 1,997
HUDDLER

Posted 05 October 2013 - 05:55 PM

what elements of society do you propose all citizens have equal access to?

 

It is primarily for non discrimination.

 

I don't think we want to go that far down the road to where we discuss access vs outcome.

 

Part of living here would be for each person to know that their decisions could not only have an effect on them, but their kids, grand kids, etc.

 

This would go for good and bad decisions.



#19 carpantherfan84

carpantherfan84

    Abductive Reasoner

  • Joined: 27-December 11
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 1,732
  • Reputation: 462
HUDDLER

Posted 05 October 2013 - 06:28 PM

LMAO, RIDICULOUSNESS.
 
Truly the Theatre of the Absurd.  In America we are sooo blessed that we have the luxury to complain about how blessed we are as a nation. Truly boggles the mind.
 
"Only those that possess would seek to limit the possessions of others."
 
 
 
But i'll play along. What is the definition of government? That is what it boils down to.  This question will be answered differently by each and every citizen. This is partly because education varies from person to person, partly because circumstances vary and partly because of culture. However, in truth there is no correct answer for this definition as the word itself is ambiguous. The term "to govern" is essentially "to control" and thus leads us all to answer at what point and to whom are we to give CONTROL. How much CONTROL are we to give up over our lives? 
 
So in America it is seriously baffling to try and ponder the situation we have wrought upon ourselves. And believe me, the citizenry has no one to blame but ourselves.  We have given ourselves the choice of two masters.  Each threatening that the other wishes to CONTROL our lives, yet neither relinquishing CONTROL over our minds.  We have been given the choice, red or blue. No purple. No pink. No gray. No brown, black or white. You are either left or right. Silly constraints willfully placed on an uninterested populace.  And what are our choices you may ask? Do we give up CONTROL of our morals, or our money.   Our beliefs or our endeavors. But always, ALWAYS over our minds. 
 
The left would have you believe that any and all actions regardless of moral implications should be left up to free choice. Consequence is not a relevant concern. Things like drugs and abortions are necessary factors of society and Utopia can be achieved through communal sharing of wealth regardless of contribution.
 
The right would have you believe that morality is duty of citizenry. That those that do not share the popular "traditional" way of thinking are to be beaten into submission. Wealth is a thing to be horded, and those that do not possess must be the worker for those that do.
 
Yet what they both have in common is CONTROL. To choose one is to shun the other. There is no common ground between these ideals. The dichotomy is so strong that average everyday citizens who normally care only a passing fancy for world politics will go after each other tooth and claw if their chosen side is threatened.  The CONTROL is truly total.
 
 
I believe the OP attempted to seek out dialogue that may help shed light on philosophical question of at what point does a society become too large, or rather unable to sustain itself without oversight, intervention and guidance.  However, like always this has and will continue to devolve into political theatre because for some reason we seem to default to protecting the CONTROL placed on our lives.
 
 
So as my sermon comes to a close, I will give my opinion based on my interpretation of the original question.  I think there are two essential goals for a society. The growth of the whole, and the growth of the individual. Social interaction is a biological desire of a social species. This means that no matter what, we as a species will seek out the group and commune as a whole. But our minds are complex and the desire to succeed, to advance and to rule is perhaps an equal if not an even stronger drive.  Our societies must be equally complex as our desires are strong.  The common good is an undeniable necessity for social harmony but since the common good is an undefinable term in a species that has free will it may be an unattainable endeavor. 
 
In my opinion things like the education of our youth is a first and foremost responsibility of anyone charged with CONTROLING so complex society.  This does not necessarily extend to the upperlevel education but for the youth, e.g. elementary/middle school, education should be the most important goal of those at the HIGHEST levels.
 
 
Next should be right to life.  This extends to many factors of a society of our size that a less developed society would not face.  Namely health care, law enforcement, resource protection etc... This once again must be handled at the highest levels since all levels benefit and contribute.
 
The last thing is specific to American Capitalism. I believe that the fact that there are other ways of living in a society is lost on most Americans, . But basically the last thing is the protection and proliferation of infrastructure.  In our society this is specifically the roads and railways; the REGULATION and growth of commerce (not necessarily businesses themselves); and the standing up, maintenance and deployment of a SUCCESSFUL military.

 

 

 

The problem is now how do we make this happen...



#20 Disinfranchised

Disinfranchised

    Disinfranchised

  • Joined: 12-August 11
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 1,718
  • Reputation: 35
  • LocationStokeridge
HUDDLER

Posted 05 October 2013 - 06:32 PM

Another good question is what % of our money should we pay for services?  "society provide" means we all chip in for.  Saw a girl last night on tv said she would give up 50% . When I first started paying I was promised government perfection for much,much less. They keep asking for a bigger piece of the action. And I am not wealthy.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users