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hepcat

With a new coaching staff....could Newton be Josh Freeman'ed?

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rayzor    10,799

Wouldn't be so quick to assume the Panthers won't end up like that...with a new coaching staff comes new loyalties and if the old guys don't like how things are done, tough.  The new coach will dump you.  Schiano isn't the only new head coach who has done things like that.

no one has ever handled it as poorly as the bucs have.

 

i'd hope we had a whole lot more class than that.

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Mr. Scot    35,021

If JR continues to hire DCs as HC,then yes, he will be Freeman'ed.

Honestly, it's just as likely - and maybe more so - you'll see that happen if you bring in an offensive coach.

An offensive guy is going to want to bring in his own system, and may well want someone he can groom from the beginning rather than someone he has to rehab from prior coach's mistakes.

The folks who want an offensive guru as the next coach may want to consider that possibility.

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Mother Grabber    7,663

I think the Freeman situation is more the exception than the rule.  If we hire a complete douche for a new HC, though, you never know.

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hepcat    4,737

Honestly, it's just as likely - and maybe more so - you'll see that happen if you bring in an offensive coach.

An offensive guy is going to want to bring in his own system, and may well want someone he can groom from the beginning rather than someone he has to rehab from prior coach's mistakes.

The folks who want an offensive guru as the next coach may want to consider that possibility.

 

True enough.  My whole point of this thread is...a new coach will have no loyalty to Cam.  He didn't draft him, he has no reason to keep him.  He goes from franchise QB to regular joe much like Freeman did.  At worst he becomes a scapegoat if things go wrong.  Gettleman will have to weigh if he wants the next coach to come with the "I can win with Cam" stipulation or the "I will win at all costs" mantra. I'd rather the latter.  Cam Newton is in danger of becoming damaged goods and I worry what the next coaching staff will think of his development.  

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BIGH2001    1,448

So the concern is that we get a new coach, they don't give Cam a fair shot or maybe they do and it turns out that he still isn't winning here.  I would think at that point we would all know that he isn't going to work out based on his ability to be an NFL QB.  I'm not talking about talent, but rather his actual ability to win games. Most of the Cam defenders blame his problems on Rivera.  It would be very interesting to see how he plays with a new coaching staff which should put the debate to rest once and for all.  I think if it doesn't work out with a new coach the chances of him going elsewhere and succeeding are pretty slim. Minus Drew Brees I can't think of a true "franchise" QB who was shipped off due to performance issues and then did a complete 180 to become an elite player on another team. 

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Happy Panther    4,005

  Will it be a coach that says "I can win with Cam Newton" or will it be a coach that says "I'm bringing in my guys.  No one is safe"

 

 

 We aren't hiring the latter if Cam is still here.

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Mr. Scot    35,021

True enough. My whole point of this thread is...a new coach will have no loyalty to Cam. He didn't draft him, he has no reason to keep him. He goes from franchise QB to regular joe much like Freeman did. At worst he becomes a scapegoat if things go wrong. Gettleman will have to weigh if he wants the next coach to come with the "I can win with Cam" stipulation or the "I will win at all costs" mantra. I'd rather the latter. Cam Newton is in danger of becoming damaged goods and I worry what the next coaching staff will think of his development.

It's a real possibility.

Jay Cutler and Josh Freeman can both testify to it.

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hepcat    4,737

So the concern is that we get a new coach, they don't give Cam a fair shot or maybe they do and it turns out that he still isn't winning here.  I would think at that point we would all know that he isn't going to work out based on his ability to be an NFL QB.  I'm not talking about talent, but rather his actual ability to win games. Most of the Cam defenders blame his problems on Rivera.  It would be very interesting to see how he plays with a new coaching staff which should put the debate to rest once and for all.  I think if it doesn't work out with a new coach the chances of him going elsewhere and succeeding are pretty slim. Minus Drew Brees I can't think of a true "franchise" QB who was shipped off due to performance issues and then did a complete 180 to become an elite player on another team. 

 

Jay Culter, Alex Smith are examples.  Neither were shipped off for performance issues but were shipped off because of either issues with the HC (Cutler), or because another QB emerged and he was no longer needed (Smith).  Neither is an elite player but both are solid.  Cam could be shipped off for either reason depending on the draft and head coach next year.  

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BIGH2001    1,448

Jay Culter, Alex Smith are examples.  Neither were shipped off for performance issues but were shipped off because of either issues with the HC (Cutler), or because another QB emerged and he was no longer needed (Smith).  Neither is an elite player but both are solid.  Cam could be shipped off for either reason depending on the draft and head coach next year.  

 

I think it's safe to say that if Cam goes it will be because he isn't winning.  The 49ers went with Alex Smith for 7 seasons and like you said he wasn't benched for performance reasons.  Chicago knew that they were getting a starter in Cutler and Denver got a really bad deal out of that trade but Cutler was still known around the league as starting QB material. If Cam gets to the point where we are willing to throw him away as the number 1 overall pick I think there will be serious questions as to whether he is actually capable of successfully leading an NFL franchise.  The only comparison I can think of where a career was resurrected is Brees. Maybe you could also throw Kurt Warner in there because he bounced around from team to team after he left the Rams until he was finally successful in Arizona.  However, one thing I'm not worried about is the Panthers letting Cam go and then him turning out to be a star somewhere else. I think he's getting too much of a pass from this board at this point. 

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hepcat    4,737

I think it's safe to say that if Cam goes it will be because he isn't winning.  The 49ers went with Alex Smith for 7 seasons and like you said he wasn't benched for performance reasons.  Chicago knew that they were getting a starter in Cutler and Denver got a really bad deal out of that trade but Cutler was still known around the league as starting QB material. If Cam gets to the point where we are willing to throw him away as the number 1 overall pick I think there will be serious questions as to whether he is actually capable of successfully leading an NFL franchise.  The only comparison I can think of where a career was resurrected is Brees. Maybe you could also throw Kurt Warner in there because he bounced around from team to team after he left the Rams until he was finally successful in Arizona.  However, one thing I'm not worried about is the Panthers letting Cam go and then him turning out to be a start somewhere else. I think he's getting too much of a pass from this board and there are serious questions in my mind about his ability to be a starting QB in the NFL.

 

Brees wasn't let go because of performance reasons.  He was successful in San Diego.  They drafted Phillip Rivers in 2004 because Brees was struggling.  Then all of a sudden he exploded in 2004 and the Chargers went 12-4.  He had an average year in 2005 and the Chargers finished 9-7.  He tore up his shoulder in the final game of 2005, and the Chargers decided to move on to Phillip Rivers.  The shoulder thing was also the main reason Miami passed on him over Daunte Culpepper.  So I'd say injury paired with the fact they drafted his replacement already was the reason he was let go...not performance.

 

If Cam is let go, it'll either be because of a) injury, b ) his replacement is drafted or the worst case scenario c) he doesn't play nice with the new head coach.

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thefuzz    4,241

It's a real possibility.

Jay Cutler and Josh Freeman can both testify to it.

 

 

No doubt.

 

There are also "work" issues as well.

 

I honestly have no clue about this, but is Cam a first in, last out guy?  It's something that if it was discussed, I could have missed it.

 

And for all you homers/haters calm down, I am not inferring anything.

 

Favre and Romo had those knocks on them early in their careers.

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