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Since some are turning on Cam I have 4 question for you.


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#31 L-TownCat

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:09 PM

1)

You won't be able to argue with them. Their answers will be questions and accusations in the negative form which are impossible to disprove like when someone is accused of being a homophobe or a racist. All you can say is huh-uh. God it's fun when we lose. :(

 


 

1) Are the Panthers today where you thought we would be as a team when we drafted Cam?
 
2) Has Cam impressed you with his personal development in the areas of mechanics, accuracy, and consistency?
 
3) Are the original knocks on his game by his detractors during the days leading up to the draft plausibly accurate?
 
4) Is it easier to change one player or an entire team's staff, philosophy, and personnel?
 
please answer objectively
 
I will link a definition the word "objectively" if you don't understand.  Just ask.



#32 koolkatluke

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:10 PM

I'm glad we drafted Cam, it was the right thing to do three years ago, and he has the physical traits to be great.  But a lot of people are saying he can only be great with better players around him.  I always thought one of the trademarks of a great player is the ability to elevate the play of those around him, make average players look good and make good players look great.  So far, Cam hasn't done that.  He has had flashes, but no consistency.

 

Name me 1 QB that won with out talent around him?



#33 MHS831

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:10 PM

Here is the bottom line---If you are making excuses for Cam Newton--justified and legitimate or not---then you actually do not know if he can be a stud QB or not.  He flashes and everyone praises Cam, but when he screws up, everyone blames the line or the OC or the coach or the WRs.....Nobody knows how good he can be--nobody.   

 

 Cam has a bad offensive line, so we should not expect him to win.  So does Peyton Manning.  He gets rid of the ball in about 2.5 seconds.  He lost his left tackle and he is behind a third string center.  They are 5-0 and averaging 40 points a game.  What is it that he has physically that Cam lacks?  nothing.  Cam has the stronger arm, the physique, and the athleticism.  Peyton is past his prime.  Cam is entering his.  Better WRs?   Manning made no-name players like Garcon, Collie, etc. better.  Nobody griped about his WRs in Indy and his line sucked there.  Now he has a bunch of WRs who were nobodies in Denver and he is making them superstars,

 

Here is the difference.  Manning is smarter.  He anticipates when the route will come open and he gets rid of the ball. Cam holds it too long.  He knows where his offense is supposed to be, but does not watch enough film or have the acumen Manning has to know how the defense will react. So he waits for them to break open.  He locks on to Smith and Olsen and misses open WRs all the time.  Manning rarely misses the open man.  Manning is not smarter by accident; he has a real rapport with his WRs and he studies film religiously.  He would tell you that he is a football player, not an "icon and entertainer."  Manning is not chummy with his teammates-just like Cam has been, but they respect him because he makes them better.  Who does Cam make better?  Right now, he is fool's gold.  He is going to tease you with his upside and incredible athleticism, but things have come easy for him due to his athleticism. 

 

People have a right to question the QB after the offense has averaged about 12 points a game if you exclude the Giants. joke. They have a right to wonder if the guy sitting by himself, working out by himself, and sulking at press conferences is the team's leader or not.   They have a right to question why he is not making everyone else better and why we are 1-3 for the third year in a row.  I am not going to apologize for using practical, common sense enough to call a duck, a duck.  Like every other player on the team, he will earn his praise.  I admire his potential and the flashes.  I am not, however, going to sing his praises

 

Now some will say, "Sure, when you compare him to Manning" as if that is an argument.  Manning is the standard.  Want to feel better?  Compare him to Brady, Brees, Big Ben, even Flacco.  Heck, the Bears' line has been terrible and they have had only 1 good WR for years--they were 10-6 last year.  Does Cutler run a 4.6? The Seahawks have no great WRs and their line is bad. Russell is not a better QB than Cam, but he is a better leader. 

 

Cam needs to win with what he has.  When the defense is holding the opponents to 13 points a game and you are losing, the QB should be questioned.

 

 

 

 



#34 Kuech the Sneak

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:11 PM

I don't know what to think of cam sometimes, sometimes he's just so frustrating.

#35 Fox007

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:11 PM

This poo is funny.

 

No one is turning on Cam.

 

We have a few racists who never were with Cam, we have a few people giving legit criticism, and then we have the blind homers.

Same as its always been.



#36 TheRed

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:11 PM

1) Are the Panthers today where you thought we would be as a team when we drafted Cam?

2) Has Cam impressed you with his personal development in the areas of mechanics, accuracy, and consistency?

3) Are the original knocks on his game by his detractors during the days leading up to the draft plausibly accurate?

4) Is it easier to change one player or an entire team's staff, philosophy, and personnel?

please answer objectively

I will link a definition the word "objectively" if you don't understand. Just ask.


Funny you mention it yourself, because I'd say #3 pretty much sums up the problem you and many others here have with him. Never wanted him here in the first place. Merely tolerated him as best you could. Any hint of imperfection? Trade him while he still has value.

#37 Snake

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:17 PM

Also, I think RR threw a little jab at DG in his presser today. Made a comment about our OL depth being an issue.....saying we saw that issue come up last year.

It is true. No excuse for it


There is no question that DG is focused on a future without Rivera. He is not going to over pay for anyone. Honestly though Rivera should have been gone last year.

#38 MHS831

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:19 PM

Name me 1 QB that won with out talent around him?

 

Peyton Manning won 10 games each year for 10 years with no LT after Glenn retired. Even after he lost 88, they continued to win 10 games a year with a terrible defense.

 

The Bears won 10 games last year with a terrible offensive line and 1 legit WR.

 

This is not to say that Cam is to blame, but it is also not to say that he is free from it.   The pitcher in baseball gets the loss even if the players behind him get 2 hits and commit 4 errors.  The reason?  He had the ball at the beginning of every pitch and he could have prevented a loss if he himself did not make his share of mistakes too.



#39 carolinanimal

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:19 PM

Here is the bottom line---If you are making excuses for Cam Newton--justified and legitimate or not---then you actually do not know if he can be a stud QB or not.  He flashes and everyone praises Cam, but when he screws up, everyone blames the line or the OC or the coach or the WRs.....Nobody knows how good he can be--nobody.   

 

 Cam has a bad offensive line, so we should not expect him to win.  So does Peyton Manning.  He gets rid of the ball in about 2.5 seconds.  He lost his left tackle and he is behind a third string center.  They are 5-0 and averaging 40 points a game.  What is it that he has physically that Cam lacks?  nothing.  Cam has the stronger arm, the physique, and the athleticism.  Peyton is past his prime.  Cam is entering his.  Better WRs?   Manning made no-name players like Garcon, Collie, etc. better.  Nobody griped about his WRs in Indy and his line sucked there.  Now he has a bunch of WRs who were nobodies in Denver and he is making them superstars,

 

Here is the difference.  Manning is smarter.  He anticipates when the route will come open and he gets rid of the ball. Cam holds it too long.  He knows where his offense is supposed to be, but does not watch enough film or have the acumen Manning has to know how the defense will react. So he waits for them to break open.  He locks on to Smith and Olsen and misses open WRs all the time.  Manning rarely misses the open man.  Manning is not smarter by accident; he has a real rapport with his WRs and he studies film religiously.  He would tell you that he is a football player, not an "icon and entertainer."  Manning is not chummy with his teammates-just like Cam has been, but they respect him because he makes them better.  Who does Cam make better?  Right now, he is fool's gold.  He is going to tease you with his upside and incredible athleticism, but things have come easy for him due to his athleticism. 

 

People have a right to question the QB after the offense has averaged about 12 points a game if you exclude the Giants. joke. They have a right to wonder if the guy sitting by himself, working out by himself, and sulking at press conferences is the team's leader or not.   They have a right to question why he is not making everyone else better and why we are 1-3 for the third year in a row.  I am not going to apologize for using practical, common sense enough to call a duck, a duck.  Like every other player on the team, he will earn his praise.  I admire his potential and the flashes.  I am not, however, going to sing his praises

 

Now some will say, "Sure, when you compare him to Manning" as if that is an argument.  Manning is the standard.  Want to feel better?  Compare him to Brady, Brees, Big Ben, even Flacco.  Heck, the Bears' line has been terrible and they have had only 1 good WR for years--they were 10-6 last year.  Does Cutler run a 4.6? The Seahawks have no great WRs and their line is bad. Russell is not a better QB than Cam, but he is a better leader. 

 

Cam needs to win with what he has.  When the defense is holding the opponents to 13 points a game and you are losing, the QB should be questioned.

 

so again my question is qb the only reason they are losing? when did football become mens tennis? do those qbs play by themselves? you admit in your own post that some of those qbs TEAMS won with them playing bad. how come this doesnt apply to cam newton?  



#40 koolkatluke

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:20 PM

Here is the bottom line---If you are making excuses for Cam Newton--justified and legitimate or not---then you actually do not know if he can be a stud QB or not.  He flashes and everyone praises Cam, but when he screws up, everyone blames the line or the OC or the coach or the WRs.....Nobody knows how good he can be--nobody.   

 

 Cam has a bad offensive line, so we should not expect him to win.  So does Peyton Manning.  He gets rid of the ball in about 2.5 seconds.  He lost his left tackle and he is behind a third string center.  They are 5-0 and averaging 40 points a game.  What is it that he has physically that Cam lacks?  nothing.  Cam has the stronger arm, the physique, and the athleticism.  Peyton is past his prime.  Cam is entering his.  Better WRs?   Manning made no-name players like Garcon, Collie, etc. better.  Nobody griped about his WRs in Indy and his line sucked there.  Now he has a bunch of WRs who were nobodies in Denver and he is making them superstars,

 

Here is the difference.  Manning is smarter.  He anticipates when the route will come open and he gets rid of the ball. Cam holds it too long.  He knows where his offense is supposed to be, but does not watch enough film or have the acumen Manning has to know how the defense will react. So he waits for them to break open.  He locks on to Smith and Olsen and misses open WRs all the time.  Manning rarely misses the open man.  Manning is not smarter by accident; he has a real rapport with his WRs and he studies film religiously.  He would tell you that he is a football player, not an "icon and entertainer."  Manning is not chummy with his teammates-just like Cam has been, but they respect him because he makes them better.  Who does Cam make better?  Right now, he is fool's gold.  He is going to tease you with his upside and incredible athleticism, but things have come easy for him due to his athleticism. 

 

People have a right to question the QB after the offense has averaged about 12 points a game if you exclude the Giants. joke. They have a right to wonder if the guy sitting by himself, working out by himself, and sulking at press conferences is the team's leader or not.   They have a right to question why he is not making everyone else better and why we are 1-3 for the third year in a row.  I am not going to apologize for using practical, common sense enough to call a duck, a duck.  Like every other player on the team, he will earn his praise.  I admire his potential and the flashes.  I am not, however, going to sing his praises

 

Now some will say, "Sure, when you compare him to Manning" as if that is an argument.  Manning is the standard.  Want to feel better?  Compare him to Brady, Brees, Big Ben, even Flacco.  Heck, the Bears' line has been terrible and they have had only 1 good WR for years--they were 10-6 last year.  Does Cutler run a 4.6? The Seahawks have no great WRs and their line is bad. Russell is not a better QB than Cam, but he is a better leader. 

 

Cam needs to win with what he has.  When the defense is holding the opponents to 13 points a game and you are losing, the QB should be questioned.

 

So wait are we comparing Cam to the 16 year 4x MVP playing now or what he was in his 3rd year?

 

 

If we are looking at Peyton Manning in 2001

 

Who was his supporting cast in 2001? So I can better see this point you're trying to make.

 



#41 carolinarolls

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:21 PM

We are not where I thought we would be when we drafted Cam... of course I did not want to draft him but he won me over very fast.  Since then what they all said about him predraft remains true. Cannot run a traditional offense, lacks accuracy, has poor mechanics.  I have seen flashes of greatness but nothing even approaching consistent growth.  They make a huge deal out of the guy for learning how to check down and coming in on his day off to watch film.  Sounds like a slow process at best, and likely somewhat fabricated in some aspects.

 

Can he be replaced?  Never.  but its way harder to change the surroundings than to change him.  Yes franchise QB's don't grow on trees. Cam is not one.  Not yet at least.  Some may argue that he is not even close.  And the best argument his fanz can make is that its not his fault and he should only be judged AFTER we put all sorts of pretty expensive things around him to compliment his abilities.

 

compliment or hide?

 

 

Truth hurts so people make excuses trying to convince themselves.  Human nature.  But facts are facts and all the stats in the world Cam-fanz can produce have only proven one thing.  That thing is that stats lead to excuse-making instead of wins.  

 

I hope they bring in the dream coach you people want.  I can't wait to hear what you blame it on next.  Or if you happen to be right and I am wrong (possible).  Its a win for me either way.

 

 



#42 carolinarolls

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:23 PM

Funny you mention it yourself, because I'd say #3 pretty much sums up the problem you and many others here have with him. Never wanted him here in the first place. Merely tolerated him as best you could. Any hint of imperfection? Trade him while he still has value.

 

 

there's  nothing funny about it

 

its f-cking sad

 

 

What they said is true.  A whole gang of chart topping stats pretty it up but what they said has proven true to date.  



#43 mav1234

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:23 PM

I'm saying in terms of Hilton, it wasn't like when he first came into the league he was a big aquisition.  By comparison, Tedd Ginn was a first rounder, and I believe he could be our Hilton.  Greg Olsen is better than both Fleener and Allen, so I would say they are equal in the least.  The Colts probably do have a better O-line, but I don't think it's all pro across the board or anything of that nature.  The Richardson pick up is big, but again he hasn't done much so far.  D-Will and Tolbert is just as good as Richardson so far.

 

 

Other than the O-line perhaps, I would say our offense is about the same in terms of talent.  It's not like the Colts drafted a "AJ Green" talent or signed a big offensive free agent in the past two years.

 

Hilton was a rookie that was drafted alongside Luck.  Comparing him to Ginn is ridiculous.  If you want to build around a young QB, you either draft talent to develop with him, or you bring in a proven veteran, not a good PR/KR that has failed at receiver everywhere he has been...

 

You asked what additions the Colts made, how they built around Luck, not how our teams compared offensively.  The Colts have continually built around Luck since drafting him, realizing how important he was for their future.



#44 carolinanimal

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:23 PM

Peyton Manning won 10 games each year for 10 years with no LT after Glenn retired. Even after he lost 88, they continued to win 10 games a year with a terrible defense.

 

The Bears won 10 games last year with a terrible offensive line and 1 legit WR.

 

This is not to say that Cam is to blame, but it is also not to say that he is free from it.   The pitcher in baseball gets the loss even if the players behind him get 2 hits and commit 4 errors.  The reason?  He had the ball at the beginning of every pitch and he could have prevented a loss if he himself did not make his share of mistakes too.

 

so what you are saying is that since he is not as good as peyton manning, a top 3 qb of all timeu he sucks? 



#45 TheRed

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:24 PM

Comparing a quarterback four games into his third season to a thirteen year veteran lol.


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