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Is God omnipotent?


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#1 Kral

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 09:30 AM

Is God omnipotent?

 

I think no.  I will provide an example from scripture to support this as from the rationalist's standpoint I think any claim to omnipotence is quickly dismissed even before existence.

 

This verse from the bible shows that even the Hebrews did not think Yahweh was omnipotent:

 

And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.  (Judges 1:19).

 

Even with Yahweh's assistance Judah and Yahweh are defeated by men with iron chariots.  Not exactly impressive for a being that supposedly flooded the entire planet and magically murdered an entire generation of first born children.

 

Arguably we could say that this also shows God is not omniscient as if he were they would have known of this outcome and not wasted the time losing to the men with iron chariots.

 

So is God (who exists for the purpose of this discussion) omnipotent or are there limits to his power/skill/knowledge?



#2 FirstRoundPick

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 09:36 AM

First we have to say he is real.  Edit..Ah never mind last sentence



#3 Anybodyhome

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 09:36 AM

Who?



#4 Kral

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 09:41 AM

First we have to say he is real.  Edit..Ah never mind last sentence

 

Just to reiterate (I know you saw it now).  For this discussion Abrhamaic god YHWH (Yahweh, God, Allah) is to be considered as a non-imaginary being.



#5 TANTRIC-NINJA

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 11:07 AM

Capital G?

He knew I would type this.

#6 Kral

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 11:10 AM

Capital G?

He knew I would type this.

 

Typically that is the practice for proper nouns when writing in English.



#7 cookinwithgas

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 11:15 AM

lesson: anyone with a car is more powerful than God.



#8 Panthro

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 11:15 AM

Well Jacob did perform a one legged take down on God



#9 cookinwithgas

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 11:20 AM

lesson: God is either pretty weak or just enjoys taunting people



#10 Kral

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 11:31 AM

lesson: God is either pretty weak or just enjoys taunting people

 

Maybe he just skipped Jiu-Jitsu practice.



#11 Kral

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 11:36 AM

Well Jacob did perform a one legged take down on God

 

Where does it describe his takedown or was that just for fun?

 

Interestingly I had always had this story related to me as being an angel not Yahweh that he was wrestling with but after reading the Masoretic Text it definitely states it was Yahweh.  However the Talmud states it is an angel.  This shows me that unevidenced stories should not be taken literally as clearly the story is changing at some point.



#12 PhillyB

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 12:50 PM

during the dusk of my adherence to christian fundamentalism i noticed a distinct trend in the church towards answering questions like these: an insistence that the number one thing and believer has to realize is that God is good. If you believe that God is good and loves you unconditionally and has your best interests at heart, it will make everything that happens easier to understand. but you MUST believe this. it is the key to understanding.

 

preacher: "God is good..."

 

congregation: "ALL OF THE TIME!"

 

preacher: "amen!"

 

 

it isn't much more than a sticking-into-the-ears of fingers and la-la-la-i-can't-hear-you-ing when confronted with an unpalatable suggestion that demands an answer. it's like believing apples are blue: when someone observes that apples are in fact not blue and brings it up, you tell everyone that believes that apples are blue that as long as you believe apples are blue, then everything will be ok, but you must believe that they are blue no matter what, or everything will fall apart, and your belief will overcome the doubt of skeptics.



#13 Kral

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 12:58 PM

That point of view causes extreme cognitive dissonance in myself if I attempt to adopt it.  I wonder how people are so easily able to ignore it.



#14 FirstRoundPick

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 01:27 PM

during the dusk of my adherence to christian fundamentalism i noticed a distinct trend in the church towards answering questions like these: an insistence that the number one thing and believer has to realize is that God is good. If you believe that God is good and loves you unconditionally and has your best interests at heart, it will make everything that happens easier to understand. but you MUST believe this. it is the key to understanding.

 

preacher: "God is good..."

 

congregation: "ALL OF THE TIME!"

 

preacher: "amen!"

 

 

it isn't much more than a sticking-into-the-ears of fingers and la-la-la-i-can't-hear-you-ing when confronted with an unpalatable suggestion that demands an answer. it's like believing apples are blue: when someone observes that apples are in fact not blue and brings it up, you tell everyone that believes that apples are blue that as long as you believe apples are blue, then everything will be ok, but you must believe that they are blue no matter what, or everything will fall apart, and your belief will overcome the doubt of skeptics.

Love the apple is blue analogy.  Im going to have to use that.  



#15 teeray

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 02:05 PM

during the dusk of my adherence to christian fundamentalism i noticed a distinct trend in the church towards answering questions like these: an insistence that the number one thing and believer has to realize is that God is good. If you believe that God is good and loves you unconditionally and has your best interests at heart, it will make everything that happens easier to understand. but you MUST believe this. it is the key to understanding.

preacher: "God is good..."

congregation: "ALL OF THE TIME!"

preacher: "amen!"


it isn't much more than a sticking-into-the-ears of fingers and la-la-la-i-can't-hear-you-ing when confronted with an unpalatable suggestion that demands an answer. it's like believing apples are blue: when someone observes that apples are in fact not blue and brings it up, you tell everyone that believes that apples are blue that as long as you believe apples are blue, then everything will be ok, but you must believe that they are blue no matter what, or everything will fall apart, and your belief will overcome the doubt of skeptics.

I am not sure if you are referring to the fact that bad things happen even though there is a loving and caring God, or if you are referring to the existence of God.

If it is the latter, the analogy doesn't really work because you can just pick am apple and show it to everyone and they will know it is red. God's existence can't be proven or disproven so you can't show the world he simply doesn't exist, therefore it falls on what you believe personally.

To build on the analogy, it would have to exist sometime in the future where apples and pictures of apples no longer exist, and you have to prove apples are red despite the fact that one has never been seen. And also consider counter evidence that apples were actually blue. Then it would be up to the person looking at the evidence to believe if apples were red or blue.


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