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Cam haters, what you should have learned from the last 3 games


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#16 panthers55

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 11:39 AM

they don't show up after wins. they most definitely have been here. there are several that showed up a couple weeks ago after being absent for a long time but as soon as things started turning around they disappeared. 

 

there were also some in here who had kept those opinions quiet for a while who started to be more vocal once there were more criticizing cam, but then they started supressing those comments

 some may have been won over, but for the most part the cam haters are quiet and/or absent when things are going well.

That is how it is with everything.  When things are going well people are content.  When they are not people complain.  I haven't heard much from the Shula complainers or the Rivera complainers either.  But they are lurking just the same waiting for the next poor game or bad decision in order to pop back up and start bitching again.  Why would it be different with Cam as well?



#17 mrford

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 11:51 AM

cam is playing better because the coaches are using him better. they arnt asking him to do as much, and at this stage in his development it is a perfect fit. He is getting better like any young QB should be. he still has his faults, like not getting rid of the ball, but he is making better passing decisions. ill take that tradeoff most days.



#18 Double Trouble

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 12:17 PM

I'm by no means a Cam hater, but it feel like every year Cam has a stretch of a great couple of game, and then lays an egg. He has looked great for 2 games lol....2 games.... and against awful teams. I hope he is making strides and his success is sustained but I'm not completely sold yet either.



#19 Frash Brastard

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 12:29 PM

Lol as if cam gives a poo about what some of you guys think about nitpicking every idiosyncracy he displays in the game

A lot of us aren't being nuthuggers but simply aren't going to waste time writing paper bricks about how cam doesn't have what it takes because of some stupid poo like his body language or how his footwork looks when defenders breach the line unblocked as soon as the ball snaps

#20 bleys

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 12:31 PM

That is how it is with everything.  When things are going well people are content.  When they are not people complain.  I haven't heard much from the Shula complainers or the Rivera complainers either.  But they are lurking just the same waiting for the next poor game or bad decision in order to pop back up and start bitching again.  Why would it be different with Cam as well?

 

somewhat different scenarios between Cam and Rivera..  

 

I hope Rivera stays the course and continues to get his team to show up on gameday.    



#21 panthers55

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 01:20 PM

somewhat different scenarios between Cam and Rivera..  

 

I hope Rivera stays the course and continues to get his team to show up on gameday.    

The criticism is much the same.  Newton is a third year quarterback.  Rivera is a third year head coach.  Both are learning and still figuring things out.  Both make mistakes.  Go ask the players about Rivera.  They love him and play hard for him every week.  They didn't give up last year and are working hard to help him save his job this year.



#22 Happy Panther

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 01:45 PM

The criticism is much the same.  Newton is a third year quarterback.  Rivera is a third year head coach.  Both are learning and still figuring things out.  Both make mistakes.  

 

Out of curiosity, how many years experience do our coach and QB need before we can  start asking for a playoff appearance?



#23 bleys

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 01:47 PM

The criticism is much the same.  Newton is a third year quarterback.  Rivera is a third year head coach.  Both are learning and still figuring things out.  Both make mistakes.  Go ask the players about Rivera.  They love him and play hard for him every week.  They didn't give up last year and are working hard to help him save his job this year.

 

on the surface, I would agree..

 

I just think the vindictive attacks on Cam are much different than those who are simply ready to move on from Rivera.

 

one guy has proven throughout 3 years he'll give your team a chance to win more often than not.  the other guy has given fans a lot of tragic 4th quarter losses to store in the memory bank.

 

just seems the criticism from Cam is far more unwarranted due to the type of people constantly ready to attack him.  I don't think that's the same for Rivera.  



#24 panthers55

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 01:51 PM

Out of curiosity, how many years experience do our coach and QB need before we can  start asking for a playoff appearance?

Depends on the circumstances.  When Cam and Rivera came here we had little talent on this team.  Each year we have increased it to the point that this year we are at least in the conversation at this point. Some coaches like Reid inherited a pretty talented team and have turned it around right away.  It also depends on whether you have a seasoned coach or quarterback or you pick rookies at both positions.  Both Rivera and Newton were rookies at their position and have needed time to learn. That is the price you pay when you have guys who need to learn as you go.



#25 panthers55

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 01:53 PM

on the surface, I would agree..

 

I just think the vindictive attacks on Cam are much different than those who are simply ready to move on from Rivera.

 

one guy has proven throughout 3 years he'll give your team a chance to win more often than not.  the other guy has given fans a lot of tragic 4th quarter losses to store in the memory bank.

 

just seems the criticism from Cam is far more unwarranted due to the type of people constantly ready to attack him.  I don't think that's the same for Rivera.  

Depends on who you talk to.  Many experts I have read or heard talk about Rivera say the attacks on Rivera are unwarranted as well and sing his praises. Some criticize him.  I guess it depends on who you listen to and what you already believe to color your opinion.   Pretty much the same with Cam.



#26 Nate Dogg

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:00 PM

Happy Panther, on 23 Oct 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

We are prisoners of the moment. 

 

My analysis is that Cam has struggled against real pressure and excelled when he has time. I think the O-Line has certainly looked better but I am not convinced they are ready to stand up to top 10 defenses. We have lost to 

Sea (ranked 1) 

Buf (6)

Ari (5)

 

Newton looked terrible in two of those but actually managed the game well against Seattle.

 

We have beaten

NYG (23)

MIN (25)

STL (27)

 

Teams we may struggle against if my theory holds

TB x2 (9)

NE (8)

NYJ (4) 

SF (10)

 

That is 5 games and we can only lose three while beating everyone else to get to the playoffs. If we are beating these teams behind Cam's arm I will drink the kool-aid. Otherwise I remain prepared to look back at 8-8 yet again.

 

 

Great post. I think we have to go 5-1 in the division and some how manage 2-1 in the NE SF MIA stretch to have a shot. NYJ scares me as well. At least it's a home game.



#27 Happy Panther

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:13 PM

Depends on the circumstances.  When Cam and Rivera came here we had little talent on this team.  Each year we have increased it to the point that this year we are at least in the conversation at this point. Some coaches like Reid inherited a pretty talented team and have turned it around right away.  It also depends on whether you have a seasoned coach or quarterback or you pick rookies at both positions.  Both Rivera and Newton were rookies at their position and have needed time to learn. That is the price you pay when you have guys who need to learn as you go.

 

If we thought Rivera was not NFL ready we should not have hired him. If Cam wasn't NFL ready then you don't use a #1 pick on him. All teams hire guys who can make an impact very soon. Rivera has been a coach in the league for 14 years.

 

Rivera already got lucky to have a third year here. Losing coaches don't last any longer that that.

 

We have the talent right now to be a playoff team. Going 6-10 to 7-9 to say 8-8 can't just be blamed on a learning curve.



#28 bleys

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:21 PM

Depends on who you talk to.  Many experts I have read or heard talk about Rivera say the attacks on Rivera are unwarranted as well and sing his praises. Some criticize him.  I guess it depends on who you listen to and what you already believe to color your opinion.   Pretty much the same with Cam.

 

I'm speaking manly about people on the forum since that was what I originally meant...  

 

often people will show up when the defense loses the game at the end and blame Cam.  With Rivera, there's a little more to pull from than firing shots in any direction.

 

Good news is he got this team to play better before the season was over.  I hope that continues as the schedule gets tougher.

 

 

I do agree there are examples where players were put in position to succeed and Rivera still catches a lot of flack..  aside from that though..



#29 panthers55

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:23 PM

If we thought Rivera was not NFL ready we should not have hired him. If Cam wasn't NFL ready then you don't use a #1 pick on him. All teams hire guys who can make an impact very soon. Rivera has been a coach in the league for 14 years.

 

Rivera already got lucky to have a third year here. Losing coaches don't last any longer that that.

 

We have the talent right now to be a playoff team. Going 6-10 to 7-9 to say 8-8 can't just be blamed on a learning curve.

That is a conversation you need to have with JR.  He picked Rivera because the NFL veteran head coaches wanted complete say in operations and Rivera would do what he told.  Plus how many coaches were dying to take over a 2-14 team who were decimated of talent??

 

As for Cam, no one thought he was ready to start but given his athleticism and potential he was deemed the right guy for the future.  And in that respect they might have been right.

 

I don't think anyone thinks we shouldn't make the playoffs this year.  But a learning curve can't be denied either.



#30 Johnny Rockets

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:29 PM

I'm by no means a Cam hater, but it feel like every year Cam has a stretch of a great couple of game, and then lays an egg.

You just described every QB in the NFL....except for those that have no stretches of good games and guys named Peyton Manning (this year).




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