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Cam haters, what you should have learned from the last 3 games


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#31 Happy Panther

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:29 PM

often people will show up when the defense loses the game at the end and blame Cam.  With Rivera, there's a little more to pull from than firing shots in any direction.

 

 

Thing is, we should never have been in a position where Buffalo controlled their own destiny with 1:30 left. I don't like saying, well Cam and the offense did their job all the blame goes on the defense. And I hope Cam isn't saying that



#32 panthers55

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:30 PM

I'm speaking manly about people on the forum since that was what I originally meant...  

 

often people will show up when the defense loses the game at the end and blame Cam.  With Rivera, there's a little more to pull from than firing shots in any direction.

 

Good news is he got this team to play better before the season was over.  I hope that continues as the schedule gets tougher.

 

 

I do agree there are examples where players were put in position to succeed and Rivera still catches a lot of flack..  aside from that though..

Well I hope you don't think that many of the whiners and bitchers here deserve much attention. People will always complain when we lose and many will complain when we lose that it is just an abberation and things will get worse. Look at folks who have said that Rivera will still choke when we play a close game or that Shula is still a bad coordinator although he seems to be doing a world of good for Cam.

I am glad we are winning and if we get to 9-7 I think that might get us into the playoffs.  If we win the next 2 we could go 4-4 and still be in contention for the playoffs.



#33 KendrickPanther

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:37 PM

People criticize Cam when he plays poorly and compliment him when he plays well. This is madness.



#34 pantherholic

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:39 PM

Where are all these Cam haters that posters keep referring to ? I read maybe 1 or 2 posts against Cam from trolls. I keep seeing these threads calling out Cam haters but have yet to see exactly who they are referring to.

 

It depends on how you look at it.  I don't post often on here, but read regularly.  But, if I did post frequently, I would be labeled a Cam Hater.  The way it works on the huddle is as follows.  You can be a Panther's fan and point out mistakes that a player makes and/or flaws that they need to work on.  You can also be a fan and not be as confident in some players as other fans are.  However, that all goes out the window if said player is Cam.  If you mention anything negative about Cam, it isn't because you are a Panther's fan and you just want to see improvement out of one of the teams' players.  No, that's not it.  The only reason you mention these things is because you're a Cam Hater.  For example, while reading future threads/posts, look for posts that mention something along the lines of ".....then Cam overthrew LaFell.....".  It doesn't matter if that did, indeed, happen.  That poster is a Cam Hater, as surely LaFell ran the wrong route or did something else wrong.  Or, a poster may say "I really wish Cam would stop throwing off his back foot so much".  That person, likewise, is a Cam Hater, as it's inarguably the fault of the coaching staff for not working with him enough to overcome this.  Just look for those types of posts and you will be able to identify a Cam Hater right off the bat.  Good luck! 



#35 panthers55

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:45 PM

We are prisoners of the moment. 

 

My analysis is that Cam has struggled against real pressure and excelled when he has time. I think the O-Line has certainly looked better but I am not convinced they are ready to stand up to top 10 defenses. We have lost to 

Sea (ranked 1) 

Buf (6)

Ari (5)

 

Newton looked terrible in two of those but actually managed the game well against Seattle.

 

We have beaten

NYG (23)

MIN (25)

STL (27)

 

Teams we may struggle against if my theory holds

TB x2 (9)

NE (8)

NYJ (4) 

SF (10)

 

That is 5 games and we can only lose three while beating everyone else to get to the playoffs. If we are beating these teams behind Cam's arm I will drink the kool-aid. Otherwise I remain prepared to look back at 8-8 yet again.

What are you using?  Total yard stats, points allowed or PFF or something else.  The point is that we may struggle against other teams with good defenses but hopefully they will struggle with us as well.   If Tampa allows us 17 points and we give up 10 each game I will take that in a heart beat. The hard teams are ones like New Orleans who are giving up only 17 but scoring 26.

 

The Jets are allowing 23  points but are only scoring 19 themselves.  The Patriots are allowing 18 points and scoring 21.  San Francisco is scoring 25 and allowing 19.

 

If you look at it really the team with the biggest differential between points for and points against is New Orleans who we have to face twice and you didn't mention.

 

 

At this point our plus 10 differential is one of the largest.

 

That should bode well for us I hope.



#36 Nate Dogg

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:51 PM

panthers55, on 23 Oct 2013 - 3:30 PM, said:

Well I hope you don't think that many of the whiners and bitchers here deserve much attention. People will always complain when we lose and many will complain when we lose that it is just an abberation and things will get worse. Look at folks who have said that Rivera will still choke when we play a close game or that Shula is still a bad coordinator although he seems to be doing a world of good for Cam.

I am glad we are winning and if we get to 9-7 I think that might get us into the playoffs.  If we win the next 2 we could go 4-4 and still be in contention for the playoffs.

 

There could be a 10 win team sitting on their butts this year. 9 wins isn't gonna cut it.

 

We have still yet to win a game that is close in the 2nd half.

 

Every game this season we have had the lead going into halftime.

 

Lets see us get one done with a little adversity in the 4th then we can say the coaches are improving.



#37 panthers55

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:51 PM

It depends on how you look at it.  I don't post often on here, but read regularly.  But, if I did post frequently, I would be labeled a Cam Hater.  The way it works on the huddle is as follows.  You can be a Panther's fan and point out mistakes that a player makes and/or flaws that they need to work on.  You can also be a fan and not be as confident in some players as other fans are.  However, that all goes out the window if said player is Cam.  If you mention anything negative about Cam, it isn't because you are a Panther's fan and you just want to see improvement out of one of the teams' players.  No, that's not it.  The only reason you mention these things is because you're a Cam Hater.  For example, while reading future threads/posts, look for posts that mention something along the lines of ".....then Cam overthrew LaFell.....".  It doesn't matter if that did, indeed, happen.  That poster is a Cam Hater, as surely LaFell ran the wrong route or did something else wrong.  Or, a poster may say "I really wish Cam would stop throwing off his back foot so much".  That person, likewise, is a Cam Hater, as it's inarguably the fault of the coaching staff for not working with him enough to overcome this.  Just look for those types of posts and you will be able to identify a Cam Hater right off the bat.  Good luck! 

I would agree that perspective is often lacking here and for some reason folks take an extreme position on one side or the other. Plus Cam is often a polarizing player for whatever reason.  Then again since fan is short for fanatic, it doesn't surprise me either.



#38 panthers55

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:54 PM

There could be a 10 win team sitting on their butts this year. 9 wins isn't gonna cut it.

 

We have still yet to win a game that is close in the 2nd half.

 

Every game this season we have had the lead going into halftime.

 

Lets see us get one done with a little adversity in the 4th then we can say the coaches are improving.

So does that put you in the camp of a whiner, complainer, hater, lover, agnostic, doubter, critic, or something else.  Remember here we deal in extremes.  No fence straddlers allowed........ LOL



#39 Happy Panther

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:55 PM

What are you using?  Total yard stats, points allowed or PFF or something else. 

http://www.footballo...m/stats/teamdef



#40 blak-n-blu

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:57 PM

play calling has been dumb down to cam's strength.. suits cam well... 5-10 yards dumps.. 

not the play-maker cam's made out to be.. but very efficient game manager now.. so far



#41 Nate Dogg

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:59 PM

panthers55, on 23 Oct 2013 - 3:54 PM, said:panthers55, on 23 Oct 2013 - 3:54 PM, said:

So does that put you in the camp of a whiner, complainer, hater, lover, agnostic, doubter, critic, or something else.  Remember here we deal in extremes.  No fence straddlers allowed........ LOL

 

Nope just a realist. We beat 3 bad teams and blew a game against buffalo another bad team. Beat up on 3 horrible teams and all of a sudden people start talking about playoffs.

 

Arizona would've been a statement game and they failed to execute.

 

Getting W's in the next two games shows us nothing. But L's would tell us everything.

 

However the defense playing the way they are with the mess we have at corner is a huge positive!



#42 Happy Panther

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 03:15 PM

Nope just a realist. We beat 3 bad teams and blew a game against buffalo another bad team. Beat up on 3 horrible teams and all of a sudden people start talking about playoffs.

 

Arizona would've been a statement game and they failed to execute.

 

Getting W's in the next two games shows us nothing. But L's would tell us everything.

 

However the defense playing the way they are with the mess we have at corner is a huge positive!

There you go



#43 panthers55

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 03:19 PM

I use Football Outsiders for stats as well but honestly I still can't figure out the specifics of DVOA and the rest.  I see the explanation but it is still over my head frankly.

 

Again I don't think you can just look at defensive stats in isolation.  I think you have to look at the offense as well and things like how they play at home versus on the road, whether we play well there or not.  For example who thinks Arizona would beat us at our house this year given how well we are playing at home and how poor they play on the road.  For example I think we will play tough against New England but worry that Brady is money on Monday Night. I think we will struggle against San Fran and Miami on the road.

 

Look at our losses. 2 of the 3 have been on the road irregardless of the defense.  Even then we had chances to win except for poor execution at critical times.  Hopefully we have fixed much of that.



#44 bleys

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 03:19 PM

Well I hope you don't think that many of the whiners and bitchers here deserve much attention. People will always complain when we lose and many will complain when we lose that it is just an abberation and things will get worse. Look at folks who have said that Rivera will still choke when we play a close game or that Shula is still a bad coordinator although he seems to be doing a world of good for Cam.
I am glad we are winning and if we get to 9-7 I think that might get us into the playoffs. If we win the next 2 we could go 4-4 and still be in contention for the playoffs.

Yeah I really don't want to destroy and rebuild..

And that was kind of my main point about the difference between Cam and Rivera haters. Obvious Cam trolls seem to wildly criticize him, whereas people don't seem to be signing up just to bash any and everything Rivera.

#45 panthers55

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 03:20 PM

Nope just a realist. We beat 3 bad teams and blew a game against buffalo another bad team. Beat up on 3 horrible teams and all of a sudden people start talking about playoffs.

 

Arizona would've been a statement game and they failed to execute.

 

Getting W's in the next two games shows us nothing. But L's would tell us everything.

 

However the defense playing the way they are with the mess we have at corner is a huge positive!

How could I forgot that category.  Some people lump realists in the bitcher, complainer category.  Others lump them into the cautiously optimistic category.  Depends on your perspective.




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