Jump to content





Photo
- - - - -

Cam haters, what you should have learned from the last 3 games


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
257 replies to this topic

#25 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • Joined: 24-November 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 17,652
  • Reputation: 2,299
HUDDLER

Posted 23 October 2013 - 01:53 PM

on the surface, I would agree..

 

I just think the vindictive attacks on Cam are much different than those who are simply ready to move on from Rivera.

 

one guy has proven throughout 3 years he'll give your team a chance to win more often than not.  the other guy has given fans a lot of tragic 4th quarter losses to store in the memory bank.

 

just seems the criticism from Cam is far more unwarranted due to the type of people constantly ready to attack him.  I don't think that's the same for Rivera.  

Depends on who you talk to.  Many experts I have read or heard talk about Rivera say the attacks on Rivera are unwarranted as well and sing his praises. Some criticize him.  I guess it depends on who you listen to and what you already believe to color your opinion.   Pretty much the same with Cam.



#26 Nate Dogg

Nate Dogg

    MEMBER

  • Joined: 21-October 13
  • PipPipPipPip
  • posts: 522
  • Reputation: 377
HUDDLER

Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:00 PM

Happy Panther, on 23 Oct 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

We are prisoners of the moment. 

 

My analysis is that Cam has struggled against real pressure and excelled when he has time. I think the O-Line has certainly looked better but I am not convinced they are ready to stand up to top 10 defenses. We have lost to 

Sea (ranked 1) 

Buf (6)

Ari (5)

 

Newton looked terrible in two of those but actually managed the game well against Seattle.

 

We have beaten

NYG (23)

MIN (25)

STL (27)

 

Teams we may struggle against if my theory holds

TB x2 (9)

NE (8)

NYJ (4) 

SF (10)

 

That is 5 games and we can only lose three while beating everyone else to get to the playoffs. If we are beating these teams behind Cam's arm I will drink the kool-aid. Otherwise I remain prepared to look back at 8-8 yet again.

 

 

Great post. I think we have to go 5-1 in the division and some how manage 2-1 in the NE SF MIA stretch to have a shot. NYJ scares me as well. At least it's a home game.



#27 Happy Panther

Happy Panther

    Now even funnier.

  • Joined: 16-March 09
  • posts: 18,507
  • Reputation: 3,471
SUPPORTER

Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:13 PM

Depends on the circumstances.  When Cam and Rivera came here we had little talent on this team.  Each year we have increased it to the point that this year we are at least in the conversation at this point. Some coaches like Reid inherited a pretty talented team and have turned it around right away.  It also depends on whether you have a seasoned coach or quarterback or you pick rookies at both positions.  Both Rivera and Newton were rookies at their position and have needed time to learn. That is the price you pay when you have guys who need to learn as you go.

 

If we thought Rivera was not NFL ready we should not have hired him. If Cam wasn't NFL ready then you don't use a #1 pick on him. All teams hire guys who can make an impact very soon. Rivera has been a coach in the league for 14 years.

 

Rivera already got lucky to have a third year here. Losing coaches don't last any longer that that.

 

We have the talent right now to be a playoff team. Going 6-10 to 7-9 to say 8-8 can't just be blamed on a learning curve.



#28 bleys

bleys

    Simple and Plain

  • Joined: 28-November 08
  • posts: 15,612
  • Reputation: 1,638
SUPPORTER

Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:21 PM

Depends on who you talk to.  Many experts I have read or heard talk about Rivera say the attacks on Rivera are unwarranted as well and sing his praises. Some criticize him.  I guess it depends on who you listen to and what you already believe to color your opinion.   Pretty much the same with Cam.

 

I'm speaking manly about people on the forum since that was what I originally meant...  

 

often people will show up when the defense loses the game at the end and blame Cam.  With Rivera, there's a little more to pull from than firing shots in any direction.

 

Good news is he got this team to play better before the season was over.  I hope that continues as the schedule gets tougher.

 

 

I do agree there are examples where players were put in position to succeed and Rivera still catches a lot of flack..  aside from that though..



#29 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • Joined: 24-November 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 17,652
  • Reputation: 2,299
HUDDLER

Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:23 PM

If we thought Rivera was not NFL ready we should not have hired him. If Cam wasn't NFL ready then you don't use a #1 pick on him. All teams hire guys who can make an impact very soon. Rivera has been a coach in the league for 14 years.

 

Rivera already got lucky to have a third year here. Losing coaches don't last any longer that that.

 

We have the talent right now to be a playoff team. Going 6-10 to 7-9 to say 8-8 can't just be blamed on a learning curve.

That is a conversation you need to have with JR.  He picked Rivera because the NFL veteran head coaches wanted complete say in operations and Rivera would do what he told.  Plus how many coaches were dying to take over a 2-14 team who were decimated of talent??

 

As for Cam, no one thought he was ready to start but given his athleticism and potential he was deemed the right guy for the future.  And in that respect they might have been right.

 

I don't think anyone thinks we shouldn't make the playoffs this year.  But a learning curve can't be denied either.



#30 Johnny Rockets

Johnny Rockets

    Mayor of Awesomeville

  • Joined: 25-November 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 6,842
  • Reputation: 1,799
HUDDLER

Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:29 PM

I'm by no means a Cam hater, but it feel like every year Cam has a stretch of a great couple of game, and then lays an egg.

You just described every QB in the NFL....except for those that have no stretches of good games and guys named Peyton Manning (this year).



#31 Happy Panther

Happy Panther

    Now even funnier.

  • Joined: 16-March 09
  • posts: 18,507
  • Reputation: 3,471
SUPPORTER

Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:29 PM

often people will show up when the defense loses the game at the end and blame Cam.  With Rivera, there's a little more to pull from than firing shots in any direction.

 

 

Thing is, we should never have been in a position where Buffalo controlled their own destiny with 1:30 left. I don't like saying, well Cam and the offense did their job all the blame goes on the defense. And I hope Cam isn't saying that



#32 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • Joined: 24-November 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 17,652
  • Reputation: 2,299
HUDDLER

Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:30 PM

I'm speaking manly about people on the forum since that was what I originally meant...  

 

often people will show up when the defense loses the game at the end and blame Cam.  With Rivera, there's a little more to pull from than firing shots in any direction.

 

Good news is he got this team to play better before the season was over.  I hope that continues as the schedule gets tougher.

 

 

I do agree there are examples where players were put in position to succeed and Rivera still catches a lot of flack..  aside from that though..

Well I hope you don't think that many of the whiners and bitchers here deserve much attention. People will always complain when we lose and many will complain when we lose that it is just an abberation and things will get worse. Look at folks who have said that Rivera will still choke when we play a close game or that Shula is still a bad coordinator although he seems to be doing a world of good for Cam.

I am glad we are winning and if we get to 9-7 I think that might get us into the playoffs.  If we win the next 2 we could go 4-4 and still be in contention for the playoffs.



#33 KendrickPanther

KendrickPanther

    SENIOR HUDDLER

  • Joined: 21-March 12
  • posts: 9,373
  • Reputation: 5,141
SUPPORTER

Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:37 PM

People criticize Cam when he plays poorly and compliment him when he plays well. This is madness.



#34 pantherholic

pantherholic

    Member

  • Joined: 24-May 09
  • PipPip
  • posts: 49
  • Reputation: 6
ROOKIE

Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:39 PM

Where are all these Cam haters that posters keep referring to ? I read maybe 1 or 2 posts against Cam from trolls. I keep seeing these threads calling out Cam haters but have yet to see exactly who they are referring to.

 

It depends on how you look at it.  I don't post often on here, but read regularly.  But, if I did post frequently, I would be labeled a Cam Hater.  The way it works on the huddle is as follows.  You can be a Panther's fan and point out mistakes that a player makes and/or flaws that they need to work on.  You can also be a fan and not be as confident in some players as other fans are.  However, that all goes out the window if said player is Cam.  If you mention anything negative about Cam, it isn't because you are a Panther's fan and you just want to see improvement out of one of the teams' players.  No, that's not it.  The only reason you mention these things is because you're a Cam Hater.  For example, while reading future threads/posts, look for posts that mention something along the lines of ".....then Cam overthrew LaFell.....".  It doesn't matter if that did, indeed, happen.  That poster is a Cam Hater, as surely LaFell ran the wrong route or did something else wrong.  Or, a poster may say "I really wish Cam would stop throwing off his back foot so much".  That person, likewise, is a Cam Hater, as it's inarguably the fault of the coaching staff for not working with him enough to overcome this.  Just look for those types of posts and you will be able to identify a Cam Hater right off the bat.  Good luck! 



#35 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • Joined: 24-November 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 17,652
  • Reputation: 2,299
HUDDLER

Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:45 PM

We are prisoners of the moment. 

 

My analysis is that Cam has struggled against real pressure and excelled when he has time. I think the O-Line has certainly looked better but I am not convinced they are ready to stand up to top 10 defenses. We have lost to 

Sea (ranked 1) 

Buf (6)

Ari (5)

 

Newton looked terrible in two of those but actually managed the game well against Seattle.

 

We have beaten

NYG (23)

MIN (25)

STL (27)

 

Teams we may struggle against if my theory holds

TB x2 (9)

NE (8)

NYJ (4) 

SF (10)

 

That is 5 games and we can only lose three while beating everyone else to get to the playoffs. If we are beating these teams behind Cam's arm I will drink the kool-aid. Otherwise I remain prepared to look back at 8-8 yet again.

What are you using?  Total yard stats, points allowed or PFF or something else.  The point is that we may struggle against other teams with good defenses but hopefully they will struggle with us as well.   If Tampa allows us 17 points and we give up 10 each game I will take that in a heart beat. The hard teams are ones like New Orleans who are giving up only 17 but scoring 26.

 

The Jets are allowing 23  points but are only scoring 19 themselves.  The Patriots are allowing 18 points and scoring 21.  San Francisco is scoring 25 and allowing 19.

 

If you look at it really the team with the biggest differential between points for and points against is New Orleans who we have to face twice and you didn't mention.

 

 

At this point our plus 10 differential is one of the largest.

 

That should bode well for us I hope.



#36 Nate Dogg

Nate Dogg

    MEMBER

  • Joined: 21-October 13
  • PipPipPipPip
  • posts: 522
  • Reputation: 377
HUDDLER

Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:51 PM

panthers55, on 23 Oct 2013 - 3:30 PM, said:

Well I hope you don't think that many of the whiners and bitchers here deserve much attention. People will always complain when we lose and many will complain when we lose that it is just an abberation and things will get worse. Look at folks who have said that Rivera will still choke when we play a close game or that Shula is still a bad coordinator although he seems to be doing a world of good for Cam.

I am glad we are winning and if we get to 9-7 I think that might get us into the playoffs.  If we win the next 2 we could go 4-4 and still be in contention for the playoffs.

 

There could be a 10 win team sitting on their butts this year. 9 wins isn't gonna cut it.

 

We have still yet to win a game that is close in the 2nd half.

 

Every game this season we have had the lead going into halftime.

 

Lets see us get one done with a little adversity in the 4th then we can say the coaches are improving.