Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Matthias

Defining a True One

73 posts in this topic

I thought God sent you here to send us all straight

 

I don't know about all that, but I will respond to your posts. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Matthais,

 

Jesus' crucifixion was a sacrifice for humanity's sins, but was it really that big of a sacrifice?

 

Most of us have been taught that heaven is a paradise.  

 

Jesus presumably knew this better than anyone, so sacrificing his earthbound body of flesh and blood was really not much of a sacrifice at all.  It amounted to little more than temporary pain and anguish for a big payoff at the end.

 

God should have simply cut out the "middle man" and decreed that humanity was getting a "do-over".  As long as individuals accepted God as their savior, they would be forgiven. 

 

Why all the unnecessary dramatics?

 

so when are you going to go thru the exact same level of pain for people you never met or like some on the huddle, could totally reject and mock and ridicule you.

 

you got the gonads for that?

 

you have tried to minimize what Jesus went thru to justify and rationalize your own point of you. but you have been socialized to think that way so it's all good.

 

but back to my first question. when are you going to take 40 lashes minus one and report back to us how its no biggie?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

and for some of you alleged bibilical scholars. what % of the bible is poetry?

 

why would you be so narrow minded as to think everything has to be taken literal? besides yet another out clause from having to take any shred of responsiblity once you read it.

 

its an ongoing, yet extremely typical argument. oh well nobody is perfect so why bother. which doesn't really mesh with the bible anyway.

 

and it ain't like hyperbole was invented around the time Mtv was.

 

some of you guys crack me up. the ease in which you puff your chest out on some subjects and yet you hide behind so much deep rooted insecurities when the bible is beyond simple for change.

 

why do i even bother expecting a mildly temperate response is beyond me. i just don't know why i bother.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so when are you going to go thru the exact same level of pain for people you never met or like some on the huddle, could totally reject and mock and ridicule you.

 

you got the gonads for that?

 

you have tried to minimize what Jesus went thru to justify and rationalize your own point of you. but you have been socialized to think that way so it's all good.

 

but back to my first question. when are you going to take 40 lashes minus one and report back to us how its no biggie?

 

If my dad were an omnipotent supernatural being, my first question would be, "How did you screw things up so badly on earth dad?  I thought you were perfect.  How can such a perfect being, create such an imperfect world and not see it coming from a universe away?"

 

Then I would recommend dad own up to his own mistakes, be a man, and fix them himself.

 

Being omnipotent, he really wouldn't need my help or anyone else's for that matter, would he?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

and for some of you alleged bibilical scholars. what % of the bible is poetry?

 

why would you be so narrow minded as to think everything has to be taken literal? besides yet another out clause from having to take any shred of responsiblity once you read it.

 

its an ongoing, yet extremely typical argument. oh well nobody is perfect so why bother. which doesn't really mesh with the bible anyway.

 

and it ain't like hyperbole was invented around the time Mtv was.

 

some of you guys crack me up. the ease in which you puff your chest out on some subjects and yet you hide behind so much deep rooted insecurities when the bible is beyond simple for change.

 

why do i even bother expecting a mildly temperate response is beyond me. i just don't know why i bother.

 

pstall, all of orthodox christianity's creedal claims stem from a literal interpretation of the bible. adherence to this creed is the foundation upon which evangelical christians build their attempts to wedge american society into the confines of mores stemming from millennia-old middle eastern societies.

 

if you are going to claim people will go burn in hell unless they pray a prayer to a guy who rose from the dead and follow what you believe - and/or then use that as justification to deny rights to members of society who may disagree - then you'd better be prepared for people to criticize it heavily and demand nuanced explanation of where you're coming from. you can't hit somebody over the head and then cry foul when they take exception.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If my dad were an omnipotent supernatural being, my first question would be, "How did you screw things up so badly on earth dad? I thought you were perfect. How can such a perfect being, create such an imperfect world and not see it coming from a universe away?"

Then I would recommend dad own up to his own mistakes, be a man, and fix them himself.

Being omnipotent, he really wouldn't need my help or anyone else's for that matter, would he?

God did. He did become a man (Jesus) and fix them himself. God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all God.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Matthias, for simplicity's sake here, let's step back. We're tackling too wide a range for the conversation to have any real direction or meaning. Let's start from scratch. Define your god. Lay down the frame work from which you will be basing everything. It's much easier that way, because I'm sensing a barrier that is being caused by a lack of understanding on how the bible is to be read for the sake of your argument.


pstall, I'm going to assume you were referring (at least partially) to me. What? I honestly have no idea what you're saying other than "don't take it literally". When it comes to how we're supposed to read the book that is supposedly the divine inspiration of a god, I don't see how it can be read any other way. Did a god not write it, according to doctrine? If so, then you would think that his word is good for what it is.

Me personally, I think it's a book written by men for the governance of other people. And history supports that. Most of the big parts and stories in the bible are taken from earlier religions, laws, and cultures. Biblical scholars (people who know far more of the subject than you or I) have reached this conclusion. I don't believe it to be divinely inspired or accurate at all (with the exception of the sieges in Kings). So, that is where I sit on it. As far as this thread goes, I am merely responding to the claims made. It got convoluted, but hopefully from here we can get it focused and moving in a direction worthwhile. At the end of the day, if you don't like the thread, then get out. It's entirely voluntary to be in here. Like you said, why bother? In fact, why bother typing a post complaining about how you shouldn't bother?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no scientific proof of love. Do you guys redicule people who claim to be in love?

Or if you happen to be in love, do you feel uninformed or not intellegent for believing you are in love?

Love also can create sorrow or violence. Do we condemn all love and those who believe in it for every murder committed in its name?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

God did. He did become a man (Jesus) and fix them himself. God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all God.

 

Again, I'll rehash how this works. God of the bible created a system that didn't work from the start due to conditions that he put in place with foresight in mind that it WOULDN'T work (he is omniscient, right?). Then, when it didn't work, he killed everybody except one family. Then temporarily allowed incest in order to populate the world (for the second time at this point), then forbade it again. The system never changed, and things continued to suck. So, in order to create a loophole to get around the rules that he created because they didn't work, he sent himself to earth in the form of Jesus in order to ultimately get flogged and crucified and die in order to fulfill the need for blood sacrifice which he put in place. Essentially, he sacrificed himself to himself in order to pay for the condition (sin) that he created.

Once more, all he had to do was come back down and say "hey, uh, guys. Listen up. It's me, god. So, you know how I said you were all sinners and how blood was to be spilled for pretty much everything? Yeah, you don't have to do that. Listen, just be cool. Be awesome to each other. Ask for forgiveness and truly mean it and that's all you gotta do to make me happy. I kinda caused this whole big deal anyway".

If I, a mortal with admittedly limited intelligence, can come up with a better solution that would leave NO doubt in any person's mind whatsoever so that there is absolutely no confusion between any two people, then why couldn't a god? Maybe, just maybe, because a god didn't write it and the writer's realized "hey, this blood sacrifice thing is getting outta hand. We need to revise this so people have a bit more hope and so we can keep animals and virgins and people guilty of adultery and other crimes alive". They came up with a story, put it on paper, and voila. There you have it. That seems like a likely outcome. No, I do not know this as fact, but I do think it is pretty likely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no scientific proof of love. Do you guys redicule people who claim to be in love?

Or if you happen to be in love, do you feel uninformed or not intellegent for believing you are in love?

Love also can create sorrow or violence. Do we condemn all love and those who believe in it for every murder committed in its name?

 

Actually, there is. We know what the brain is doing when the feeling of love is taking place. We know the specific brain activity. Love is a human condition that is involuntary, so no, I do not feel uninformed or unintelligent for believing when I am in love.

Your last sentence is just question begging and a hasty generalization. You'd have to assume all love DOES necessarily create sorrow or violence in order for that to work.. Nice try, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites