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williams will still be the starter


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#16 pantherclaw

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 09:06 AM

Doesn't matter who is the starter.

People need to stop acting like hurt princesses.

#17 CRA

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 09:13 AM

This is all a little presumptuous. Maybe I missed something but Stew isn't on the active roster. Maybe I missed something else but Deangelo hasn't been practicing with a leg injury. We need to let this play out before we even have this discussion.

 

And Stew doesn't deserve criticism from anyone. When he was healthy he busted his ass and ran people over. He literally ended a guys career with his buns of steel. Injuries are part of the position. If you are angry about the money then you should criticize Marty and Jerry.

nothing to play out.   RR is going to bring 28 on the active roster.

 

Williams will be the token starter.

 

We will run a RB committee however, and each week likely a different RB will have the most time on the field



#18 panthers55

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 10:14 AM

nothing to play out.   RR is going to bring 28 on the active roster.

 

Williams will be the token starter.

 

We will run a RB committee however, and each week likely a different RB will have the most time on the field

Williams will be the starter and if he is effective will continue to get the lion's share of the carries.  If like last week he isn't as effective as Tolbert, then Tolbert will get more carries.  Stewart will get some as well to see where he is at.  If he comes on and has a good game or if Williams is still favoring his leg, then carries will change.  But Williams is the starter until other players show they deserve the carries more.  

 

 

You never miss a chance to minimize his role or take a shot at DeAngelo as if he did something to you personally.



#19 CRA

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 10:38 AM

Williams will be the starter and if he is effective will continue to get the lion's share of the carries.  If like last week he isn't as effective as Tolbert, then Tolbert will get more carries.  Stewart will get some as well to see where he is at.  If he comes on and has a good game or if Williams is still favoring his leg, then carries will change.  But Williams is the starter until other players show they deserve the carries more.  

 

 

You never miss a chance to minimize his role or take a shot at DeAngelo as if he did something to you personally.

 

I didn't minimize anything.  You are trying to find something even when it isn't there.

 

Once everyone is healthy and ready.....there will be no such thing as a "starting" RB in reality.  Just one pegged as it.....and as I said, Williams has earned that.

 

Tolbert has seen more snaps than Williams in half our games almost.  When healthy, we will be a committee.....simple and plain.  Each week will dictate who sees the field most.  That being the case, when we have all 3 there is no starting RB.  It is a committee.

 

 I also doubt Stewart will be worthy of real reps until a few weeks from now.  



#20 Panthro

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 10:41 AM

Wonder what the rb snap count % was when we were 1-3 and then 3-0

#21 CRA

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 10:52 AM

Wonder what the rb snap count % was when we were 1-3 and then 3-0

Tampa - Tolbert 38 snaps, Williams 30

Rams - Tolbert 39 snaps, Williams 34

Vikes - Williams 43 snaps, Tolbert 38

 

on the year, they have had played the exact same number of snaps.....



#22 panthers55

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 02:59 PM

Tampa - Tolbert 38 snaps, Williams 30

Rams - Tolbert 39 snaps, Williams 34

Vikes - Williams 43 snaps, Tolbert 38

 

on the year, they have had played the exact same number of snaps.....

Snaps mean nothing.  For example on how many plays are Williams and Tolbert in the backfield because Tolbert is blocking for Williams?  If they played the same position then it might be somewhat germaine.  Do we compare snaps between Olsen and Williams??  Why not?  They don't play the same position and one being on the field doesn't necessitate the other not being on the field.  If you want to compare them more appropriately then look at carries not snaps. 



#23 CRA

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 03:03 PM

Snaps mean nothing.  For example on how many plays are Williams and Tolbert in the backfield because Tolbert is blocking for Williams?  If they played the same position then it might be somewhat germaine.  Do we compare snaps between Olsen and Williams??  Why not?  They don't play the same position and one being on the field doesn't necessitate the other not being on the field.  If you want to compare them more appropriately then look at carries not snaps. 

lol...you watch the games right?  You can count on one hand probably the number of times Tolbert has lined up to be Brad Hoover for Williams.

 

Go back and look at 2011.  Stewart played more SNAPS.  He played more SNAPS....b/c it was better for the OVERALL offense that he was on the field instead of Williams.  Stewart lead the division that year in percentage of snaps played.  Williams had more rush attempts.

 

You are so desperate to argue with me.....you are now taking a stance of WHO Carolina chooses to play doesn't matter, only carries.  Tolbert doesn't have to get a carry to impact things, just like Stewart didn't in 2011.

 

You are basically arguing it is irrelevant if Steve Smith plays WR....only things that matters is receptions.   Some odd logic.  SNAPS matter for Steve.  Not just coverage.  He still dictates things.  Not as comically as he did years ago but it all matters.

 

You argue too much for even me these days.   Good day sir.



#24 KendrickPanther

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 03:14 PM

With the read option there is potential for multiple guys to get a touch on a given play. Who gets the touch is dictated by the defense and Cam's decision making. This is all a bit weird though I'm not sure it matters.



#25 panthers55

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:35 PM

lol...you watch the games right?  You can count on one hand probably the number of times Tolbert has lined up to be Brad Hoover for Williams.

 

Go back and look at 2011.  Stewart played more SNAPS.  He played more SNAPS....b/c it was better for the OVERALL offense that he was on the field instead of Williams.  Stewart lead the division that year in percentage of snaps played.  Williams had more rush attempts.

 

You are so desperate to argue with me.....you are now taking a stance of WHO Carolina chooses to play doesn't matter, only carries.  Tolbert doesn't have to get a carry to impact things, just like Stewart didn't in 2011.

 

You are basically arguing it is irrelevant if Steve Smith plays WR....only things that matters is receptions.   Some odd logic.  SNAPS matter for Steve.  Not just coverage.  He still dictates things.  Not as comically as he did years ago but it all matters.

 

You argue too much for even me these days.   Good day sir.

No actually what I am talking about is relevant but because it flies in the face of your suppositions so you dismiss it.  The reality is that Tolbert is often used either as the dive option on the read option or as a lead blocker when we line up in a power run or even a zone running formation.  How many carries did he get in those three games??

 

He got 7 carries versus Williams 8 carries in Tampa Bay.   With four catches he handled the ball 11 times.  Williams caught 1 so he was given the ball 9 times.  What does it matter who was in the game on more snaps??  In this game Tolbert had a bigger impact based on TDs, catches and first downs.  Snaps mean very little.

 

The rest of the game he either didn't get the ball or he was blocking either on passes or for runs.  That means on 27 occasions he blocked in the passing game or blocked for Williams or wasn't targeted. 

 

And no I am not saying Smith is irrelevant if he only catches 2 balls but I saying that if you are in the game on every snap and only get the ball a few times you can't say they are more important than a guy who is in the game on half that many snaps but scores 3 TDs or has a dozen catches.

 

You are equating snaps to importance in the game and I am saying that is not the issue.  How many snaps you play is not nearly as important as how you impact the game on the number of snaps you are in the game.  That is the point and seems to elude you.  If Fua plays 10 snaps and gives up 4 big plays but Cole is in on 3 snaps and has 2 big stops and a sack, then is Fua more important because he was in for 7 more snaps??  That is your logic. You just look at snaps and not context, right??? ( and no the Fua Cole comparison was hypothetical not what happened so stop with your concrete logic there)  It was just to illustrate that snaps are not relevant if you do something bad or are not impactful.

 

Now when you come back to argue,  tell me who is argumentative here.  And then when you have to get the last word in no matter what, tell me who is more argumentative and compulsive.



#26 tjmurray

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:47 PM

No actually what I am talking about is relevant but because it flies in the face of your suppositions so you dismiss it. The reality is that Tolbert is often used either as the dive option on the read option or as a lead blocker when we line up in a power run or even a zone running formation. How many carries did he get in those three games??

He got 7 carries versus Williams 8 carries in Tampa Bay. With four catches he handled the ball 11 times. Williams caught 1 so he was given the ball 9 times. What does it matter who was in the game on more snaps?? In this game Tolbert had a bigger impact based on TDs, catches and first downs. Snaps mean very little.

The rest of the game he either didn't get the ball or he was blocking either on passes or for runs. That means on 27 occasions he blocked in the passing game or blocked for Williams or wasn't targeted.

And no I am not saying Smith is irrelevant if he only catches 2 balls but I saying that if you are in the game on every snap and only get the ball a few times you can't say they are more important than a guy who is in the game on half that many snaps but scores 3 TDs or has a dozen catches.

You are equating snaps to importance in the game and I am saying that is not the issue. How many snaps you play is not nearly as important as how you impact the game on the number of snaps you are in the game. That is the point and seems to elude you. If Fua plays 10 snaps and gives up 4 big plays but Cole is in on 3 snaps and has 2 big stops and a sack, then is Fua more important because he was in for 7 more snaps?? That is your logic. You just look at snaps and not context, right??? ( and no the Fua Cole comparison was hypothetical not what happened so stop with your concrete logic there) It was just to illustrate that snaps are not relevant if you do something bad or are not impactful.

Now when you come back to argue, tell me who is argumentative here. And then when you have to get the last word in no matter what, tell me who is more argumentative and compulsive.


Panthers55 is a bad boy...

#27 tjmurray

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:50 PM

CRA said people are desperate to argue with him. I know we are living in the matrix now... What the hell.

#28 CRA

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 06:13 PM

CRA said people are desperate to argue with him. I know we are living in the matrix now... What the hell.

No, I didn't say people are...

One specific poster over one specific topic. I'm done with the epic back and forths on it...season will tell the story as it plays out. If our guys are healthy I think most know how it will go

#29 panthers55

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 07:41 PM

No, I didn't say people are...

One specific poster over one specific topic. I'm done with the epic back and forths on it...season will tell the story as it plays out. If our guys are healthy I think most know how it will go

If I have back and forths with you and you have back and forths with other folks, then what is the common link??  Look in the mirror because the problem is you not someone else.



#30 iamhubby1

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 08:15 PM

This is all a little presumptuous. Maybe I missed something but Stew isn't on the active roster. Maybe I missed something else but Deangelo hasn't been practicing with a leg injury. We need to let this play out before we even have this discussion.
 
And Stew doesn't deserve criticism from anyone. When he was healthy he busted his ass and ran people over. He literally ended a guys career with his buns of steel. Injuries are part of the position. If you are angry about the money then you should criticize Marty and Jerry.


Stewy, to the best of my knowledge, has gotten all the reps for 2 very good reasons. 1. They wanted to see what he can do both, physically, and how he responds the next day. The plan, to me, was to judge him on his progress this week. They are cautiously optimistic last I had hear.

His reps this week hinges on if he looks good, and has no setbacks. If he is active, he will probably play. And there was great rejoicing. However, he is NOT taking up a roster spot to not play.

2. Gave DWill the rest. He has earned it. Stewy has proven that you don't need practice to be successful. Tolberts carries went up to lighten the load. They wanted Barner, but obviously, for some unknown reason, that has not materialized.

Short Story long. He is NOT taking up a roster spot to not play. The only way he plays is if he can prove he deserves them. The only thing holding him back are those pesky questions about his ankles. If he is active, he will play. Cool if he doesn't play 1 more week, as alt. is a only a glorified scrimmage. But cooler still would be for him to contribute, while adding another playmaker to the arsenal.


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