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#31 twylyght

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 03:30 PM

Approximately 95 percent of the people that study this stuff for a living say you are full of poo. And science is not morality. It's science.

 
http://www.washingto...-high-saturday/

 

 

Antarctic sea ice has grown to a record large extent for a second straight year, baffling scientists seeking to understand why this ice is expanding rather than shrinking in a warming world.

On Saturday, the ice extent reached 19.51 million square kilometers, according to data posted on the National Snow and Ice Data Center Web site.  That number bested record high levels set earlier this month and in 2012 (of 19.48 million square kilometers). Records date back to October 1978.

 



#32 cookinwithgas

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 03:36 PM

Case in point: 30+ years of serious scientific research on the subject can easily be discredited by one data point posted in a blog.

 

This is the kind of stupidity people who spend their entire lives devoted to actual research have to deal with to get their work across.



#33 twylyght

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 03:41 PM

Case in point: 30+ years of serious scientific research on the subject can easily be discredited by one data point posted in a blog.

 

This is the kind of stupidity people who spend their entire lives devoted to actual research have to deal with to get their work across.

 

Welcome to full retard... you've now gone to absolutely nothing to contribute of substance on this matter

 

PS - Thanks for proving my point about religious zealotry



#34 PhillyB

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 04:15 PM

Just as science does not have the information to determine when human life begins and/or ends, it does not have the requisite information to determine mankind's role in the earth's climate. As such, it cannot be ethically used to dictate policy on either issue. As climate science has yet to produce a viable predictive model to account for the requisite variance, to believe the punditry that man is causing what is claimed amounts to little more than religious zealotry. Hence the ethical evil of imposing one's morality on everyone else is a very apt comparison if you wish to make that with abortion law.

 

science is not an entity and it has no agency as such. this is a foundational point you and many others seem not to grasp and it's pretty clear how it effects your worldviews



#35 venom

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 04:33 PM

You guys can't honestly believe this man made co2 crap, can you? The earth naturally puts out about a trillion times more co2 each year than the entire human species, yet somehow we're the cause of climate change? Of course there are things that we've done and are doing that aren't helping the cause, but to blame this situation solely on us is naïve and ridiculous. The obvious answer here is the sun...which unfortunately for the state, cannot be taxed.



#36 cookinwithgas

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 04:38 PM

see twylight you have a helpful ally in your quest to replace science with venomish logic



#37 twylyght

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 06:00 PM

science is not an entity and it has no agency as such. this is a foundational point you and many others seem not to grasp and it's pretty clear how it effects your worldviews

 

Phrenology, eugenics, provable fact that man cannot invoke lighter-than-air-flight, provable fact that man cannot travel faster than the speed of sound, part of this complete breakfast, vitamin C will keep you from getting sick.... 

 

If you look back a mere century to the things that we KNEW to be scientific truth, the point that I make to religious zealotry is founded in truth.  Whatever the scientific method is supposed to be in theory, it has taken some disparate turns in practice.  I presented the anomaly from a solid part of the scientific community and was mocked/scorned by the climatology religious establishment without a hint of an attempt at scientific reason.

 

Kuhn and Hobbes were correct with their works on the philosophy of science.  Science stands as a principle.  People continue to act on irrational motive due to their vested interests with respect to their investments in their world views.



#38 thatlookseasy

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 06:21 PM

You guys can't honestly believe this man made co2 crap, can you? The earth naturally puts out about a trillion times more co2 each year than the entire human species, yet somehow we're the cause of climate change? Of course there are things that we've done and are doing that aren't helping the cause, but to blame this situation solely on us is naïve and ridiculous. The obvious answer here is the sun...which unfortunately for the state, cannot be taxed.

 

Might want to check your numbers there boss, current emissions are more like 2% of the natural carbon produced annually.  Which brings up the far more relevant point, that we have added a significant source to the carbon cycle which has no natural sink.

 

Also- you know we currently measure the sun's output, right?



#39 cookinwithgas

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 06:32 PM

But so do the Aliens DISPROVE THAT YOU CANT MISTER SCIENTISTS



#40 venom

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 12:35 AM

Might want to check your numbers there boss, current emissions are more like 2% of the natural carbon produced annually.  Which brings up the far more relevant point, that we have added a significant source to the carbon cycle which has no natural sink.

 

Also- you know we currently measure the sun's output, right?

 

It's called exaggeration. Either way, what we put out is no where near what the planet emits naturally...so it is no real cause for alarm.

And yes I am ware that we measure the sun's activity. Through this we know the sun has been going through a major heating up phase over the last few years, hence all the bizarre weather we've been having.



#41 venom

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 12:36 AM

But so do the Aliens DISPROVE THAT YOU CANT MISTER SCIENTISTS

 

EXACTLY



#42 thatlookseasy

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:32 AM

It's called exaggeration. Either way, what we put out is no where near what the planet emits naturally...so it is no real cause for alarm.

And yes I am ware that we measure the sun's activity. Through this we know the sun has been going through a major heating up phase over the last few years, hence all the bizarre weather we've been having.

 

The only way you can say it is "no cause for alarm" is if you think CO2 is not active in the environment, because the concentration in the atmosphere and the ocean has been steadily increasing (and continues to do so).  Atmospheric concentration is up 40% from pre-industrial levels, and the ocean is measurably more acidic



#43 Niner National

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:37 AM

It's called exaggeration. Either way, what we put out is no where near what the planet emits naturally...so it is no real cause for alarm.

And yes I am ware that we measure the sun's activity. Through this we know the sun has been going through a major heating up phase over the last few years, hence all the bizarre weather we've been having.

Doesn't matter. I would explain it, but this does a pretty good job of it and I don't feel like typing several paragraphs:

 

http://www.skeptical...l-emissions.htm



#44 venom

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:41 AM

CO2 Myth Busted: Why We Need More Carbon Dioxide to Grow Food and Forests
 

 

(NaturalNews) If you talk to the global warming crowd, carbon dioxide -- CO2 -- is the enemy of mankind. Any and all creation of CO2 is bad for the planet, we're told, and its production must be strictly limited in order to save the world.

But what if that wasn't true? What if CO2 were actually a planet-saving nutrient that could multiply food production rates and feed the world more nutritious, healthy plants?

CO2 is a vital nutrient for food crops
 

As it turns out, CO2 is desperately needed by food crops, and right now there is a severe shortage of CO2 on the planet compared to what would be optimum for plants. Greenhouse operators are actually buying carbon dioxide and injecting it into their greenhouses in order to maximize plant growth.

The science on this is irrefutable. As just one example, the Ontario Ministry of Agriculture and Food says:

CO2 increases productivity through improved plant growth and vigour. Some ways in which productivity is increased by CO2 include earlier flowering, higher fruit yields, reduced bud abortion in roses, improved stem strength and flower size. Growers should regard CO2 as a nutrient.

If you want to understand why CO2 is an essential nutrient for food crop growth, check out this informative slide show. It explains that "CO2 may be repidly depleted during crop production" daylight hours, because the plants pull all the CO2 out of the air and use it in photosynthesis.

The CO2 found in modern-day atmosphere is 340ppm. But food crops would grow far faster if the concentration of CO2 were closer to 1000ppm, or roughly 300% higher than current levels. In fact, most greenhouse plant production causes a "CO2 depletion" to happen, shutting down photosynthesis and limiting food production. As the "Carbon Dioxide in Greenhouses" fact sheet explains:

Ambient CO2 level in outside air is about 340 ppm by volume. All plants grow well at this level but as CO2 levels are raised by 1,000 ppm photosynthesis increases proportionately resulting in more sugars and carbohydrates available for plant growth. Any actively growing crop in a tightly clad greenhouse with little or no ventilation can readily reduce the CO2 level during the day to as low as 200 ppm.

Thus, greenhouse plants are "running out" of CO2. They are starving for it. And when you add it to food crops, you get higher yields, improved taste, shorter flowering times, enhanced pest resistance and other benefits.

Why we should pump carbon dioxide into greenhouses
 

This brings up an obvious answer for what to do with all the CO2 produced by power plants, office buildings and even fitness centers where people exhale vast quantities of CO2. The answer is to build adjacent greenhouses and pump the CO2 into the greenhouses.

Every coal-fired power plant, in other words, should have a vast array of greenhouses surrounding it. Most of what you see emitted from power plant smokestacks is water vapor and CO2, both essential nutrients for rapid growth of food crops. By diverting carbon dioxide and water into greenhouses, the problem of emissions is instantly solved because the plants update the CO2 and use it for photosynthesis, thus "sequestering" the CO2 while rapidly growing food crops. It also happens to produce oxygen as a "waste product" which can be released into the atmosphere, (slightly) upping the oxygen level of the air we breathe.

This is a brilliant solution because humans want to live on a world with low CO2 that supports frozen ice caps in order to keep ocean water levels low, but they want to eat a volume of food that requires high CO2 for production. The answer is to concentrate CO2 into greenhouses where food production is multiplied by CO2 nutrition.

I'll bet you've never heard Al Gore talk about CO2 as "nutrition." He declares it a pollutant and wants to tax you for producing it. But CO2 is actually a key nutritive gas for food crops. Without carbon dioxide, we would all have starved to death by now.

Shutting down power plants to destroy America's power infrastructure
 

The U.S. government's solution to power plant emissions, however, is to just shut down coal-fired power plants, causing rolling blackouts across the USA, especially during hot summer days. The EPA has forced hundreds of power plants to shut down across the USA, achieving a loss of power infrastructure that vastly exceeds what would even be possible by an enemy invasion of high-altitude warplanes dropping bombs.

The EPA, under the excuse of "saving the planet," is destroying America's power infrastructure and leading our nation into a third-world scenario where power availability is dicey and unsustained. It seems to be just one part of the overall plan to gut America's economy, offshore millions of jobs, put everybody on welfare and destroy small businesses.

But what if we harnessed coal-fired power plants instead of shutting them down? What if we used them as "CO2 generators" that fed CO2 into vast greenhouse operations that produced organic, high-growth foods that could feed the nation? Coal-fired power plants can produce both electricity and food nutrition at the same time.

Better yet, if you combine this concept with aquaponics, you get simultaneous production of plants and fish while using no soil, no GMOs and one-tenth the water of conventional agriculture.

See, the solutions to all our problems already exist. The only reason we are suffering as a nation is because political puppets try to brainwash us into believing complete falsehoods like, "carbon dioxide is a dangerous pollutant" or "the people don't need healthy foods; they need medications and vaccines." When societies believe falsehoods, they crumble and collapse.

That's where America is headed, of course. And it's all being accelerated by deceptive bureaucrats who want to convince you that growing real food is bad and we should all be punished for exhaling carbon dioxide, an essential nutrient for food crops. Carbon dioxide is not the enemy it's been made out to be. It's actually plant nutrition that helps regrow rainforests, food crops and wetlands. In fact, higher CO2 levels in the atmosphere would make the planet more lush and abundant in terms of plant life, forests, trees and food crops.

Learn more: http://www.naturalne...l#ixzz2jstEKHj1




 



#45 thatlookseasy

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:59 AM

 

No.  None of that is right, I'll try to break it down point by point.

 

CO2 is vital for food crops-

 

Yes, plants use CO2 to grow.  But CO2 is not the limiting factor to growth naturally (usually nutrients like N and P), so increasing atmospheric CO2 levels will not stimulate plant growth.  The exception is in a closed environment like a greenhouse like they point out, but greenhouses are going to be lacking CO2 no matter what the atmospheric levels are, so its an irrelevant point.

 

Pumping it into greenhouses-

 

Ok, you can do that- if you have a clean source of CO2.  Pumping the exhaust from coal fired power plants straight into greenhouses however is a fantastic way to poison all your plants, thanks the the high levels of sulfer and mercury from the coal.  Really stupid idea (hint: it would have been done by now if this was really a solution, there are coal-fired power plants all over the fuging world)

 

Shutting down power plants to destroy americas power infrastructure

 

Really? This is a point?  So stupid, clearly we are replacing coal plants with other power plants.  There is no "plan to gut americas economy," that is fuging retarded.  Also: if you think greenhouses are feeding the nation than you simply have no understanding of the magnitude of food production in this country.  Our food is grown outdoors, the number of greenhouses you would have to build to feed then entire US population is mind-boggling.

 

 

In summation, this author found something talking about low CO2 concentrations in greenhouses and wrote a blog post about what he thinks it means, even though he clearly doesnt know a god damn thing about the subject




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