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Getting Defensive - 49ers Edition

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#46 panthers55

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 12:07 PM

You really don't know how good we are because we don't know how good we are.  All we know is that our cakewalk schedule led to 4 consecutive blowouts.  What else are you supposed to do to bad teams?

But how many supposed great teams are not blowing out bad teams.  Look at Seattle at home last Sunday.  It isn't that easy to blow out bad teams either.



#47 jungleking

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 12:14 PM

No excuse needed. We are 6-2 with the 32nd ranked pass offense. Do the math lol.

 

We obviously haven't needed to pass. Kap has proved numerous times that he can pass the ball effectively.

 

But whatever makes yall feel better!

 

If your version of an effective passing game ranks 26th in the league in completion percentage, there's something wrong. The Jets complete passes at a higher rate than you guys.

 

Seriously. The Jets.

 

But yeah, whatever makes you feel better.



#48 MHS831

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 01:17 PM

But how many supposed great teams are not blowing out bad teams.  Look at Seattle at home last Sunday.  It isn't that easy to blow out bad teams either.

 

I agree--and that was part of my point--wins in the NFL are tough, so if they want to point to our weak schedule, they must also point to the manner in which we blew teams out. 

 

Funny, but there were not too many people who would have swapped schedules with us at the beginning of the season.  If DWill doesn't fumble and if RR goes for it on 4th and 1 in Buffalo, their attitudes would be totally different.
 



#49 Joey 9ers

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 02:41 PM

If your version of an effective passing game ranks 26th in the league in completion percentage, there's something wrong. The Jets complete passes at a higher rate than you guys.

 

Seriously. The Jets.

 

But yeah, whatever makes you feel better.

 

You tell me who is more effective/ efficient. Yeah, but whatever makes you feel better.

 

 

 

Cam - 239 att  1801 yds    29.9 att/g     225.1 ypg    7.5 YPA    7 int    2.9% of att    22 sacks  180 yds lost

 

Kaep - 198 att  1584 yds    24.8 att/g     198 ypg    8.0 YPA   5 int     2.5% of att    15 sacks   78 yds lost

 

Geno - 272 att  1997 yds    30.2 att/g     221.8 ypg     7.3  YPA   13 int   4.8% of att      30 sacks   218 yds lost



#50 getsome

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 03:12 PM

I look to see the check down to one of our running backs to be the difference maker in this game. All 3 can run, can catch and can put the move on defenders, tagging on yards after the catch. With Stu back, and he looked good, Cam will have that option all day. SF's defense is going to be off balance and boom, Cam will hit his wr at that point.



#51 jfo89

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 03:20 PM

I actually have to agree. The whole "how we did vs common opponents"argument is nonsense.

Sent from my SGH-T999


I agree with this.

#52 Nate Dogg

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 03:36 PM

Great post.

 

I think if we can bottle up Marshawn and AP, we will do just fine against Gore. If the offensive line gives Cam enough time, I like our chances.

 

If we score over 30 again I think we take it home. If we score under 30, I don't know if I like our chances in a close game on the road. Hopefully we will see this Cam transformation continue when under pressure and our offense won't melt down like it did in the 2nd half in Arizona.



#53 CTHawk

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 03:55 PM

You tell me who is more effective/ efficient. Yeah, but whatever makes you feel better.

 

 

 

Cam - 239 att  1801 yds    29.9 att/g     225.1 ypg    7.5 YPA    7 int    2.9% of att    22 sacks  180 yds lost

 

Kaep - 198 att  1584 yds    24.8 att/g     198 ypg    8.0 YPA   5 int     2.5% of att    15 sacks   78 yds lost

 

Geno - 272 att  1997 yds    30.2 att/g     221.8 ypg     7.3  YPA   13 int   4.8% of att      30 sacks   218 yds lost

 

Funny how you only list the Kaep-favorable stats. Look, I can do it too.

 

Here you go...

 

Cam - 64.4% comp, 1801 yds, 13 TDs, 93.1 QB rating

Kaep - 57.1% comp, 1584 yds, 9 TDs 87.6 QB rating

 

Btw, YPA is a misleading stat, and has as much (if not more) to do with receivers yards after catch as it does any sort of indicator of QB performance. Number of sacks is also a misleading stat. 49ers have a better O-line. Is it surprising that Cam was sacked more?



#54 Joey 9ers

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 04:10 PM

Funny how you only list the Kaep-favorable stats. Look, I can do it too.

 

Here you go...

 

Cam - 64.4% comp, 1801 yds, 13 TDs, 93.1 QB rating

Kaep - 57.1% comp, 1584 yds, 9 TDs 87.6 QB rating

 

Btw, YPA is a misleading stat, and has as much (if not more) to do with receivers yards after catch as it does any sort of indicator of QB performance. Number of sacks is also a misleading stat. 49ers have a better O-line. Is it surprising that Cam was sacked more?

 

I would disagree on YPA, maybe total yards, but YPA is a pretty good indicator over the course of a season, on how well a QB plays.  

 

Top 5 YPA (started all games)

1. Rodgers

2. Manning

3. Rivers

4. Brees 

5. Kaepernick 

10. Newton

 

Total QBR 

3. Kaepernick (75.2)

12. Cam newton (59.0)

 

I'm not saying one is better than the other, I think they are pretty close to a toss up, but they are being asked to do different things right now. The originally argument was about efficiency only



#55 MHS831

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 04:14 PM

This will be a good game.  Whatever is said here means nothing, except the people arguing are blindly biased.   It just feels good to have a meaningful game in November. 



#56 CTHawk

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 04:21 PM

I would disagree on YPA, maybe total yards, but YPA is a pretty good indicator over the course of a season, on how well a QB plays.  

 

Top 5 YPA (started all games)

1. Rodgers

2. Manning

3. Rivers

4. Brees 

5. Kaepernick 

10. Newton

 

Total QBR 

3. Kaepernick (75.2)

12. Cam newton (59.0)

 

I'm not saying one is better than the other, I think they are pretty close to a toss up, but they are being asked to do different things right now. The originally argument was about efficiency only

 

YPA is skewed by the fact that normally, QBs that rank high on this list have high completion percentages. Kaep has a low (ish) completion percentage, so that tells me a lot of YAC, and/or a lot of completed deep balls.

 

QBR is a joke, btw, as shown by the fact that Kaep is #3 in the league.



#57 CarolinaCoolin

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 04:44 PM

Why do 49ers keep using QBR? Like you lose all credibility when you try to use that.

#58 panthers55

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 04:50 PM

I would disagree on YPA, maybe total yards, but YPA is a pretty good indicator over the course of a season, on how well a QB plays.  

 

Top 5 YPA (started all games)

1. Rodgers

2. Manning

3. Rivers

4. Brees 

5. Kaepernick 

10. Newton

 

Total QBR 

3. Kaepernick (75.2)

12. Cam newton (59.0)

 

I'm not saying one is better than the other, I think they are pretty close to a toss up, but they are being asked to do different things right now. The originally argument was about efficiency only

YPA is not a good indicator of how well a QB plays. It is an indicator of how effective the passing game is relative to the number of attempts.  Things that influence the YPA include YAC, the routes your receivers run, the number of big plays you have and the way the defenses play you. 

 

Plus rankings are often not good measures given that each ranking difference is not equal.  For example the difference between 1 and 5 is .8 yards and the difference between 5 and 10 is .5 yards.

 

 

Most people look at TD/Int Ratio as a good individual measure of the quarterback versus the passing game.  So Kaepernick has 9 TDs and 5 Ints or a ratio of  1.8 versus Cam has 13 TDs and 7 Ints or 1.85.



#59 kanti

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 04:56 PM

Why do 49ers keep using QBR? Like you lose all credibility when you try to use that.

 

Yea and Panthers fan use their #2 rush defense as a source of validation.



#60 Joey 9ers

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 05:08 PM

YPA is not a good indicator of how well a QB plays. It is an indicator of how effective the passing game is relative to the number of attempts.  Things that influence the YPA include YAC, the routes your receivers run, the number of big plays you have and the way the defenses play you. 

 

Plus rankings are often not good measures given that each ranking difference is not equal.  For example the difference between 1 and 5 is .8 yards and the difference between 5 and 10 is .5 yards.

 

 

Most people look at TD/Int Ratio as a good individual measure of the quarterback versus the passing game.  So Kaepernick has 9 TDs and 5 Ints or a ratio of  1.8 versus Cam has 13 TDs and 7 Ints or 1.85.

 

You are correct about YPA, but my original argument was about passing game efficiency, and how just completion percentage doesn't tell the full story. 

 

I think the both guys are playing really close this year. They are being asked to do different things, and they are both playing pretty well. 

 

I believe Cam is more relied on in his offense to make plays and score TDs than Kaep is for the 49ers. 





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