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If Slaughter Houses Were Built of Glass

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pretty much what's "natural" is toil, struggle, and exploitation.  kinda the history of life on earth, don't you think?


Agreed. But don't you think this type of behavior becomes unnatural as soon as we have the ability as a species to recognize its toxicity? Usually at these breaking points is where our evolution or demise steps in, as we choose it.
 

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however, the idea humans are unique in destroying environments is absolutely false.  plenty of organisms change their environments, either in very large or smaller ways.

 

beavers, anyone?  

 

I mean humans are an extreme.  but what makes us so fascinating is we are now reaching a point where we can look at what we're doing and say "wait - there are alternatives to this that can still allow us to survive."


The problem with our case is that we're doing everything to the EXTREME, which results in significant loss of balance and flow, thus states of dis-ease.
 

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Agreed. But don't you think this type of behavior becomes unnatural as soon as we have the ability as a species to recognize its toxicity? Usually at these breaking points is where our evolution or demise steps in, as we choose it.
 

 

Not unnatural, no.  I think it becomes unhealthy and in some ways inexcusable.

 

 

The problem with our case is that we're doing everything to the EXTREME, which results in significant loss of balance and flow, thus states of dis-ease.
 

 

I don't really think there is a natural state of balance at all.

 

Again, I don't think this excuses our behavior.  Quite the opposite, the fact that, imo, nature is chaos and struggle, to me says that since we are capable of being different and doing so may help prevent a lot of struggle and pain we have an obligation to be.  But meh.

 

 

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Not unnatural, no.  I think it becomes unhealthy and in some ways inexcusable.

 

 

 

I don't really think there is a natural state of balance at all.

 

Again, I don't think this excuses our behavior.  Quite the opposite, the fact that, imo, nature is chaos and struggle, to me says that since we are capable of being different and doing so may help prevent a lot of struggle and pain we have an obligation to be.  But meh.

 


I guess I tend to look at unhealthy and unnatural as being the same thing in a way. There will always be the natural balance of yin and yang, but once one starts to overpower the other, this balance gets lost and morphs into unnatural states. Just my opinion though.

 

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I guess I tend to look at unhealthy and unnatural as being the same thing in a way. There will always be the natural balance of ying and yang, but once one starts to overpower the other, this balance gets lost and morphs into unnatural states. Just my opinion though.

 

 

I guess my study in ecology, evolution, and natural history has lead me to the conclusion there is no balance to the "natural world" and it's all in a constant state of flux and struggle and that we basically see "natural flow" because we don't look closely enough at the processes underlying it all sometimes.  But that's also just my opinion. :)

 

but I think you and I are on the same page on this one, we just are using different terminology and see the place of humanity different.  Just was curious about your opinion on it.  Always good chatting with you on this stuff. :)

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OixVPcCbcx0

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I am vaginaterian.

 

 

Is that when someone is a connoisseur of this jknFVUc.jpg?

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I once watched a pig get shot in the back of the head, dipped in boiling hot water, skinned and gutted and then get turned into delicious bbq later that night. 

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Thats terrible.

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Animals that are treated better taste better.

 

Therefore, I am in support of some measures. But, it's also ridiculous to expect people to pet every single cow and wait on them hand and foot before they're killed and turned into food. Wagyu beef if wagyu beef for a reason.

 

People abusing animals, or anything for that matter, suck. But, delicious animals are delicious and I'd love nice bloody ribeye with a side of bacon right about now. 

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If you could see me doing your girlfriend you'd do a better job.

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Animals that are treated better taste better.

 

Therefore, I am in support of some measures. But, it's also ridiculous to expect people to pet every single cow and wait on them hand and foot before they're killed and turned into food. Wagyu beef if wagyu beef for a reason.

 

People abusing animals, or anything for that matter, suck. But, delicious animals are delicious and I'd love nice bloody ribeye with a side of bacon right about now. 

 

Exactly, treating livestock humanely by making sure they are fed a healthy diet, raised in a relatively clean environment and exposed to minimal stress would likely benefit everyone involved in the process. 

 

Most Americans eat too much meat and dairy as it is, so a moderate increase in prices for higher quality more humanely raised livestock might encourage more people to adopt better eating habits as well. 
 

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Exactly, treating livestock humanely by making sure they are fed a healthy diet, raised in a relatively clean environment and experience minimal stress would likely benefit everyone involved in the process. 

 

Most Americans eat too much meat and dairy as it is, so a moderate increase in prices for higher quality more humanely raised livestock might encourage more people to adopt better eating habits as well. 
 

 

Many healthy options and meats in general are already priced out of lower socio-economic groups though. Someone in a higher income bracket already has the ability to buy local, organic, farm raised, etc. A pack of bacon, carton of eggs, and gallon of milk will run what, at least 10-12 bucks these days?  Raise that to 13-15 bucks for example.  Not to mention the time in cooking it. For that same price, you could get 12-13 mystery meat sausage biscuits at the local fast food place. Raise prices even more, and more kids will be fed the value menu at McDonalds than already are IMO. 

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Everyone loses their mind over a single lion being killed and then trots over to a fast food chain to dine on their outrage. I remember this conversation going differently in another thread

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My youngest just turned 6 and came to me and his mom with a simple request: he didn't want to eat meat anymore. When we asked him why he stated he doesn't want the animals to hurt. I was incredibly proud of his decision. So far he's done pretty good with it.
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As I see it, if you feel the need to give all of your animals preventative antibiotics because their living conditions are so terrible that they are very likely to get sick, your conditions can be improved

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Four legs good two legs bad

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As I see it, if you feel the need to give all of your animals preventative antibiotics because their living conditions are so terrible that they are very likely to get sick, your conditions can be improved

 

Yep, because of the overuse of antibiotics in factory farms you run into issues with bacteria becoming immune to the treatment that humans generally use for those diseases. There's also a large overuse of vaccines on factory farms which is leading to viruses mutating and becoming much harder to stop.

 

All of this leads to mutations and stronger strands of viruses, resilient diseases that are fighting back with antibiotics and It's having an extremely negative impact on the environment, human immune systems and so forth. 

 

Eventually you'll run into an issue were you have a extremely deadly virus or disease and no way to treat it because it's become immune to the antibiotics/vaccines that are used. Then you run the risk of having an epidemic and life balancing itself out again. 

 

 

Just a factoid, around 70-80% of all antibiotics used in the US are for factory farmed animals. A large portion of vaccines used in the US are also used on factory farms. 

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not to be a dick but using antibiotics on viruses is dumb anyway. I'm suspecting you're referring to other diseases, those driven by bacteria, which are treated with antibiotics.  Sorry to be a dick here, but part of the reason antibiotic resistance is occurring in the human population is that too few people understand the difference between a virus and a bacteria.

 

from what I've read, the biggest danger is salmonella, so cook the fug out of that chicken.

 

you're right about it being a problem, but it's probably the only way to keep so many animals in confined spaces.

 

I'd be just as happy if we, uh, didn't do that.

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Bacon.jpg

 

Oh, the humanity. The sizzlin' delicious humanity.


 

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Humans are pretty fucking humane compared to the other "intelligent species" on Earth, i.e. dolphins and chimpanzees.

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Watching Predators at War some, I wonder if lion cubs ever go to the lionesses and express their displease of how their dinner was still alive while they were partaking. 

 

 

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Humans are pretty fuging humane compared to the other "intelligent species" on Earth, i.e. dolphins and chimpanzees.


How do you figure so?

 

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not to be a dick but using antibiotics on viruses is dumb anyway. I'm suspecting you're referring to other diseases, those driven by bacteria, which are treated with antibiotics.  Sorry to be a dick here, but part of the reason antibiotic resistance is occurring in the human population is that too few people understand the difference between a virus and a bacteria.

 

from what I've read, the biggest danger is salmonella, so cook the fug out of that chicken.

 

you're right about it being a problem, but it's probably the only way to keep so many animals in confined spaces.

 

I'd be just as happy if we, uh, didn't do that.

 

Didn't see this earlier, I miss-typed in my post I was meaning that Antibiotics are becoming ineffective at treating diseases and viral infections are rapidly evolving and mutating because of the breeding grounds that factory farms have become. 

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/opinion/the-growing-antibiotic-crisis-subtherapeutic-use-on-factory-farms-is-creating-drug-resistant-superbugs-20131201

 

70% of antibiotics are used in factory farms and it's causing them to pretty much die out, antibiotics are getting more and more ineffective at treating the diseases they are created for and the largest cause for that is factory farming. It's the largest concern when it comes to antibiotics becoming completely ineffective. It's given to treat pretty much everything in factory farms and it ends up in the food people eat, thus creating a cycle of the human populous getting fed antibiotics everyday if they eat meat regularly. 

 

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=antibiotic--in-food-animals

Of even greater concern is the preponderance of antibiotics used down on the farm. “Antibiotics often are used on industrial farms not only to treat sick animals but also to offset [the health effects of] crowding and poor sanitation, as well as to spur animal growth,” reports the Pew Campaign on Human Health and Industrial Farming. Indeed, researchers estimate that up to 70 percent of all antibiotics sold in the U.S. are given to healthy food animals to artificially expedite their growth and compensate for the effects of unsanitary farm conditions. “The routine use of antibiotics in food animals presents a serious and growing threat to human health because it creates new strains of dangerous antibiotic-resistant bacteria,” says Pew.

 

http://www.treehugger.com/sustainable-agriculture/vaccines-factory-farms-causing-new-resistant-viruses.html

 

If vaccinations are indeed driving new mutilations, then I see a gaping dilemma presented by industrial-scale hog farming: If we insist on raising animals in massive concentrations, we're forced to choose between a vaccination treadmill, which reduces the incidence level of flu in CAFOs but predictably generates novel, vaccine-resistant strains, or not vaccinating at all, which would allow flu to run rampant among millions of hogs. There is, of course, a third option: Stop raising animals under industrial-scale, dense conditions.

 

As for my miss type in my previous post on how factory farming effects viral infections, I didn't make the distinction in my first post and that's my fault. It's happening with both Antibiotics and vaccines, most of their uses in the US are on factory farms to keep animals alive in crowded horrible conditions and it's leading to stronger mutated viruses and antibiotic resilient bacteria strands.  Really the only way to stop this downward cycle is to either eat meat you know isn't pumped full of antibiotics and vaccines, urge the US government to enforce the FDA and USDA to limit the amount and types of antibiotics and vaccines to those that are just used on animals and not those that are prescribed and given to humans as well. 

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