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Wild graph showing all 32 offensive ranks by yards and points per game.


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#76 panthers55

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 07:50 AM

I think you make an interesting point regarding our 2011 offense versus the offense of 2012 and 2013. To me we were much more productive and consistent having Shockey and Olsen. I wish someone could explain how our offense has regressed .from 13th in passing to 29th with basically the same talent .

The dropoff was intentional and started last year while Chud was still here. We went to a more conventional offense to control the clock sustain drives and keep the ball. At the same time we changed philosophies we started winning and won 5 out of 6 last year and 12 out of 16 this year or 17 out of our last 22.
people castigating Shula forget that Rivera is likely behind this change. It isn't Mike couldn't do better but is doing exactly what Rivera wants. Sure we want more points in every game but as far as total yards who cares. And we have shown the ability to quickly score when needed at end of games. With a few more playmakers on offense we will likely improve next year but I suspect that Rivera is okay with this offense which is why Shula is still here. People can bitch all they want but the powers that be are happy with Shula I suspect so get ready for several more years of the same.

#77 Scuba Steve

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 08:36 AM

The dropoff was intentional and started last year while Chud was still here. We went to a more conventional offense to control the clock sustain drives and keep the ball. At the same time we changed philosophies we started winning and won 5 out of 6 last year and 12 out of 16 this year or 17 out of our last 22.
people castigating Shula forget that Rivera is likely behind this change. It isn't Mike couldn't do better but is doing exactly what Rivera wants. Sure we want more points in every game but as far as total yards who cares. And we have shown the ability to quickly score when needed at end of games. With a few more playmakers on offense we will likely improve next year but I suspect that Rivera is okay with this offense which is why Shula is still here. People can bitch all they want but the powers that be are happy with Shula I suspect so get ready for several more years of the same.

 

I really dont want to....but I totally agree.  I do not think there will be changes in the near future anyway....



#78 jarhead

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 08:44 AM

The dropoff was intentional and started last year while Chud was still here. We went to a more conventional offense to control the clock sustain drives and keep the ball. At the same time we changed philosophies we started winning and won 5 out of 6 last year and 12 out of 16 this year or 17 out of our last 22.
people castigating Shula forget that Rivera is likely behind this change. It isn't Mike couldn't do better but is doing exactly what Rivera wants. Sure we want more points in every game but as far as total yards who cares. And we have shown the ability to quickly score when needed at end of games. With a few more playmakers on offense we will likely improve next year but I suspect that Rivera is okay with this offense which is why Shula is still here. People can bitch all they want but the powers that be are happy with Shula I suspect so get ready for several more years of the same.

You are probably right but an intentional drop-off seems counter intuitive. Nothing wrong with going more conventional but why completely abandon a passing scheme  that was successful? 



#79 DaveThePanther2008

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 09:07 AM

i don't want to say that it was shula....but it was shula.

 

I was a big proponent of Shula but it is hard to see the problem is not him.  At least the majority of it.  

 

A lot was said about the overthrows and bad passes Cam made but he also made some very critical throws that were pin point.

 

Shula will get the benefit of the doubt but next season, with some quality weapons, I hope he knows he is under the microscope.

 

Go Panthers
 



#80 panthers55

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 09:21 AM

You are probably right but an intentional drop-off seems counter intuitive. Nothing wrong with going more conventional but why completely abandon a passing scheme  that was successful? 

There was no intentional desire to drop off in total yards. I can't imagine that even being a part of the discussion. Only on here by fans does total yards even matter. Things like time of possession, flipping the field, and scoring would all be important.  I don't know why everyone cares about total yards when our overall scoring was similar to what we did in the past.



#81 rayzor

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 09:41 AM

yardage doesn't matter. we have a lot of short fields (comparatively) and drives that take a lot of time off the clock. i dont see how there couldn't be a drop off.

 

even the total points don't matter much (comparatively) because, thanks to our very stingy defense, there just isn't a need for 30 points a game or whatever.

 

what matters is being able to turn possessions into points more regularly. we just didn't do it enough... mean sure, we got enough to win 12 ganes this year, but it was closer than it should have been and our inability to produce more points resulted in us being one and done in the playoffs.

 

we need to impose our will on offense the way we do on defense. our defense was the stingiest in the league. our offense needs to be one that is just as strong...one that can not be stopped. i think we've got the right QB for the job and we've got a lot of other things that we need, but we need more help on the OL, more receiving help, and better production from our RB corps. in addition, and probably more importantly, we need to stretch defenses more and be more dangerous schematically.

 

i know that short-midrange passes are a key element when we are trying to control the clock, but we shouldn't be as enslaved to that philosophy that we don't miss/create opportunities to score from outside the redzone.

 

if we could manage the offense the way the defense is managed (and i'm more thinking about the way we blitz) then i think the offense could be just as dangerous.

 

better playcalling and management is needed just as much or more than better performance from our players. 

 

what we've been doing on offense isn't good enough for sustained success. we need more production.



#82 panthers55

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 09:45 AM

I was a big proponent of Shula but it is hard to see the problem is not him.  At least the majority of it.  

 

A lot was said about the overthrows and bad passes Cam made but he also made some very critical throws that were pin point.

 

Shula will get the benefit of the doubt but next season, with some quality weapons, I hope he knows he is under the microscope.

 

Go Panthers
 

Other than on here I doubt he is under the microscope.  We didn't do well against the 49ers and struggles some the last few games but when you win 10 of 11 games going into the playoffs you don't get put under the microscope.  Only on the huddle are people so negative.



#83 panthers55

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 10:01 AM

yardage doesn't matter. we have a lot of short fields (comparatively) and drives that take a lot of time off the clock. i dont see how there couldn't be a drop off.

 

even the total points don't matter much (comparatively) because, thanks to our very stingy defense, there just isn't a need for 30 points a game or whatever.

 

what matters is being able to turn possessions into points more regularly. we just didn't do it enough... mean sure, we got enough to win 12 ganes this year, but it was closer than it should have been and our inability to produce more points resulted in us being one and done in the playoffs.

 

we need to impose our will on offense the way we do on defense. our defense was the stingiest in the league. our offense needs to be one that is just as strong...one that can not be stopped. i think we've got the right QB for the job and we've got a lot of other things that we need, but we need more help on the OL, more receiving help, and better production from our RB corps. in addition, and probably more importantly, we need to stretch defenses more and be more dangerous schematically.

 

i know that short-midrange passes are a key element when we are trying to control the clock, but we shouldn't be as enslaved to that philosophy that we don't miss/create opportunities to score from outside the redzone.

 

if we could manage the offense the way the defense is managed (and i'm more thinking about the way we blitz) then i think the offense could be just as dangerous.

 

better playcalling and management is needed just as much or more than better performance from our players. 

 

what we've been doing on offense isn't good enough for sustained success. we need more production.

I am sure that Shula would agree that we need more production.  He would likely be more specific for example and look at redzone scoring where we seemed to struggle toward year's end. I am sure he would like more big plays but I also suspect he is actually happy with Cam's progression this year.  I suspect like Rivera he will continue to learn and improve.  I am just not unhappy like some on here who only see the negative.



#84 DaveThePanther2008

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:21 PM

Other than on here I doubt he is under the microscope.  We didn't do well against the 49ers and struggles some the last few games but when you win 10 of 11 games going into the playoffs you don't get put under the microscope.  Only on the huddle are people so negative.

 

A top notched defense covers up a lot of his flaws.  A rookie DB saved his ass from losing the NFCS.  To believe we won 12 games based on his offensive prowess is almost as bad as believing we can get by with the receiving corps we have.



#85 panthers55

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:31 PM

A top notched defense covers up a lot of his flaws.  A rookie DB saved his ass from losing the NFCS.  To believe we won 12 games based on his offensive prowess is almost as bad as believing we can get by with the receiving corps we have.

That is one interpretation.  Another one is that the defense went from top 15 last year to top 5 in part because of the offense we ran.  He ran what the team and Rivera wanted to run.  You like others assume that he did the best he could and don't like it.  It probably never dawned on you that Rivera being a defensive guy purposely wanted a strong rushing attack and a passing attack that would move the chains, run the clock and score enough to win.  Sure every team wants to score 50 points a game but given the tools and emphasis, Shula likely did exactly what Rivera wanted him to do which is why no thought was given at all about replacing him.



#86 mcdougal

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:48 PM

lol was anybody else wondering where the Broncos were and then realized...



#87 DaveThePanther2008

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:55 PM

That is one interpretation.  Another one is that the defense went from top 15 last year to top 5 in part because of the offense we ran.  He ran what the team and Rivera wanted to run.  You like others assume that he did the best he could and don't like it.  It probably never dawned on you that Rivera being a defensive guy purposely wanted a strong rushing attack and a passing attack that would move the chains, run the clock and score enough to win.  Sure every team wants to score 50 points a game but given the tools and emphasis, Shula likely did exactly what Rivera wanted him to do which is why no thought was given at all about replacing him.

 

I was all for Shula being OC.  100% behind him and I still am but our offense struggled mightily against good defenses.  While we will never march up and down the field against top notch defenses.  To go to the next step we have to be more potent than we are.    I have on many occasions posted that our low ranking offensively was based on our ball control style of offense.

 

While you may disagree with my outlook on Shula I am fully aware of how our offense is run and the philosophy Rivera wants to employ. You don't like my opinion it is your right to say so but try and keep your attempts to degrade my intelligence and knowledge of this team because you don't agree out of the discussion. TO ASSUME I don't because I believe we need to be better offensively and the onus is on Shula is just as bad as you saying anything about this team DAWNED on me.

 

Shula benefited from a great defense.  Only Gettleman knows how much of that defense we will have next year.  Will it be Top 5 again?  Shula better hope so if he plans on duplicating 12 wins.   Our defense carried us and Cam stepped up and brought us back to 4th quarter wins.   

 

Maybe saying he is under a microscope is a bit harsh but to say he is didn't benefit from the amazing Cam Newton and a great defense is being a bit too optimistic.  

 

That coming from one of the more optimistic members of this forum..



#88 panthers55

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 03:36 PM

I was all for Shula being OC.  100% behind him and I still am but our offense struggled mightily against good defenses.  While we will never march up and down the field against top notch defenses.  To go to the next step we have to be more potent than we are.    I have on many occasions posted that our low ranking offensively was based on our ball control style of offense.

 

While you may disagree with my outlook on Shula I am fully aware of how our offense is run and the philosophy Rivera wants to employ. You don't like my opinion it is your right to say so but try and keep your attempts to degrade my intelligence and knowledge of this team because you don't agree out of the discussion. TO ASSUME I don't because I believe we need to be better offensively and the onus is on Shula is just as bad as you saying anything about this team DAWNED on me.

 

Shula benefited from a great defense.  Only Gettleman knows how much of that defense we will have next year.  Will it be Top 5 again?  Shula better hope so if he plans on duplicating 12 wins.   Our defense carried us and Cam stepped up and brought us back to 4th quarter wins.   

 

Maybe saying he is under a microscope is a bit harsh but to say he is didn't benefit from the amazing Cam Newton and a great defense is being a bit too optimistic.  

 

That coming from one of the more optimistic members of this forum..

What teams did great against Good defenses besides perhaps Manning and Brady.  If you count the 49ers in the playoffs we faced 10 teams with defenses in the top half of the league which was tops among all teams I believe.   So to assume that Shula was even a big issue is over the top in my opinion.

 

And who said he didn't benefit from a great defense or having Cam.  And who said that he didn't need to improve in areas like redzone offense or even some playcalling.

 

Why does everything here seem to exist as a win-lose and black or white concrete issue when most things are just shades of grey.




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