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G-man needs to explore Hardy to Raiders and Kill 2 Birds w/ a tag & trade

Denarius Moore

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#16 ItsNotGonnaBeAlright

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 01:53 PM

If he was tagged and agreed to it, then doesn't that mean he's signed a contract? If so, can the team then trade him away for picks/players?

So while he may not want to be a Raider, if he agrees to the tag, the team could then move him there and he'd have to go right?

Before 2010, yes.
Now, it depends on what kind of tag is used.



#17 PantherDynasty

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 01:54 PM

OK, smart guy, you show me where someone else has mentioned Hardy to the Raiders and Moore to the Panthers.  I must have missed it.

Tagging and trading Hardy is something half this board wants to do. Adding in a receiver has been discussed many times and I have had discussions with a few people about how nice a pickup Moore would be. Do you think people only discuss Panther related things on the Huddle?



#18 Dollar Store Dave

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 02:13 PM

Just for fun, when the Chiefs tagged Jared Allen in 2008, he was given a 1 year contract worth $8.8 million guaranteed. He was then traded to the Vikings in April for a first and two thirds in the upcoming draft. He then signed a contract with the Vikings worth $750,000 base with a $15.5 million signing bonus. Total cap hit that year to the Vikings was $8 million. Total cap hit to the Chiefs was $0.

 

Agreed, however, you're forgetting the one thing that makes that argument irrelevant. That was under a different CBA. We can't use that scenario, because the salary rules/franchise tag rules have totally changed.



#19 General_Purr

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 02:14 PM

Id rather keep Hardy and have a number 1 defense with a young core



#20 ItsNotGonnaBeAlright

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 02:16 PM

Agreed, however, you're forgetting the one thing that makes that argument irrelevant. That was under a different CBA. We can't use that scenario, because the salary rules/franchise tag rules have totally changed.

Not in regards to who pays the contract. It's just a contract like any other.



#21 Promethean Forerunner

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 02:17 PM

You guys are jumping the gun here. It's as if Hardy is guaranteed to walk away or trade bait. The fact is we don't what's going on behind closed doors. For all we know Hardy and Gettleman are coming close to an agreement or already have. We'll find out what's important to The Kraken soon -- camaraderie and winning OR money.

#22 Dollar Store Dave

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 02:22 PM

Not in regards to who pays the contract. It's just a contract like any other.

 

You're right, but, a franchise tag is a fully guaranteed contract the minute it is signed.

 

 

 

© If a player subject to a Franchise Player designation accepts the Required Tender, theresulting Player Contract shall be fully guaranteed if the player’s contract is terminated because of lack of comparative skill;

 

So, what's being said is that, even if the player is injured, doesn't play, etc, his contract is still fully guaranteed. When we look at the rules for trading a player:

 

 

What happens if a player is traded or retires? 

Answer: We already know that if a player is waived on or before June 1, the remaining signing bonus that has not been included in salary “accelerates” and is included in that year’s team salary. Acceleration also occurs when a player is traded or waived and picked up by another team. The new team is not responsible for any of the original signing bonus. The team that waived or traded the player is responsible for the accelerated signing bonus (in the same manner as described above).

- Source

 

Given that the franchise tag is seen as a fully guaranteed contract, the new team is not responsible for any of the original signing bonus (or, in this case, guaranteed money).



#23 stirs

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 02:23 PM

All kinds of talking will be going on behind the scenes at the combine.

 

I do hope that Gman takes a more aggressive, wheelin/dealin approach than Hurney did, who just let guys walk away getting nothing in return.

 

I am thinking a high second this year and a third the next season for Hardy.  Maybe two seconds, maybe



#24 cardiackat88.

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 02:26 PM

He gonna be a giant or bronco or bear.

#25 ItsNotGonnaBeAlright

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 02:38 PM

You're right, but, a franchise tag is a fully guaranteed contract the minute it is signed.

 

 

 

 

So, what's being said is that, even if the player is injured, doesn't play, etc, his contract is still fully guaranteed. When we look at the rules for trading a player:

 

 

 

 


Answer: We already know that if a player is waived on or before June 1, the remaining signing bonus that has not been included in salary “accelerates” and is included in that year’s team salary. Acceleration also occurs when a player is traded or waived and picked up by another team. The new team is not responsible for any of the original signing bonus. The team that waived or traded the player is responsible for the accelerated signing bonus (in the same manner as described above).

- Source

 

Given that the franchise tag is seen as a fully guaranteed contract, the new team is not responsible for any of the original signing bonus (or, in this case, guaranteed money).

It's not a bonus, it's base salary. Only the bonus gets accelerated to the trading team, the receiving team takes on responsibility for the base salary. They can also immediately renegotiate that contract into a long term one. And this is only if it's an exclusive tag. If it's non-exclusive, then the player would sign one of three contracts: the one year franchise offer from current team, or choose a single offer from one other team to counter to their current team who could then replace the franchise offer with an offer to counter what the other team has offered. The player then signs one of those two offers, and then hits the books based on the terms in the offer they accept.



#26 Dollar Store Dave

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 02:40 PM

It's not a bonus, it's base salary. Only the bonus gets accelerated to the trading team, the receiving team takes on responsibility for the base salary. They can also immediately renegotiate that contract into a long term one. And this is only if it's an exclusive tag. If it's non-exclusive, then the player would sign one of three contracts: the one year franchise offer from current team, or choose a single offer from one other team to counter to their current team who could then replace the franchise offer with an offer to counter what the other team has offered. The player then signs one of those two offers, and then hits the books based on the terms in the offer they accept.


In this case, "signing bonus" is the same as "guaranteed money". I'm on my phone now or else id like the paragraph from the CBA that states exactly that.

#27 top dawg

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 03:24 PM

Tagging and trading Hardy is something half this board wants to do. Adding in a receiver has been discussed many times and I have had discussions with a few people about how nice a pickup Moore would be. Do you think people only discuss Panther related things on the Huddle?

 

Trading Hardy, yes, but acquiring Moore in a trade with Hardy, no.

 

 

And as far as all you other people who don't want to discuss trade scenarios because it's gonna be a long off-season, then don't open the thread. Simple.



#28 Goondal

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 03:26 PM

Best I can find for when a tag, and trade actually occurred in the NFL, was in 1998, and 2000.

 

In 1998 it was the Panthers who traded two first rounders to the Redskins for franchise tagged DT Sean Gilbert.

 

In 2000 it was the Cowboys who traded two first rounders to the Seahawks for franchise tagged WR Joey Galloway.

 

Dammit, do you know how long it took me to erase that from my memory?



#29 top dawg

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 03:31 PM

What do you mean "wouldn't cost a dime"? In order to do this, we would have to rig up some sort of franchise tag then trade deal, which would immediately accelerate all of the guaranteed money in the franchise tag against our cap as dead money the second that Hardy would be traded.

 

A non-exclusive franchise tag, from what I understand, would allow us to trade him without any penalty the way I understand it, provided there is no signing bonus.  I could be wrong, but I would think that G-man, Hardy and his agent can come up with something creative that would be beneficial to everyone concerned in the case of a tag and trade scenario.



#30 TheRed

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 03:31 PM

Dammit, do you know how long it took me to erase that from my memory?

 

Yeah I know, my apologies.





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