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Evan Turner vs Tobias Harris


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#16 Proudiddy

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 04:24 PM

For me I guess the problem would be this.....Barnes was the better player when they were drafted two years ago, he's the better player now, and he will be the better player in the future.  Any time it was suggested we draft Barnes (because UNC fans knew the talent he had would translate well to the NBA) all the ABC-ers said we were just looking at it through our "Heels-colored glasses".   Now here were are two years later talking about swapping picks (Barnes/MKG), giving up a 1st round pick, and an expiring contract just to get a guy who we passed on already.  I'm a Barnes fan and I'd love him here, but I would honestly lose all faith in Cho and the front office (the little bit I have left) if they made that move.  Not to mention it's looking like they missed on Zeller, too.  

 

If we're really talking about packaging MKG then I think him plus BG is plenty.  They're adding a raw talent in MKG, who can help them defensively and they're giving up a player in Barnes who is their 6th man.   

 

Yeah, that angle doesn't bother me much because I'm used to our franchise making huge mistakes in the draft and then spending the subsequent years trying to fix what they messed up, lol.  We've done it for our entire existence - outside of Kemba.

So, that's why I would be all for it.

As far as what we did that draft...  I didn't know that I wanted Barnes that high per se, BUT I knew with certainty that I DID NOT want MKG.  So, to me, anyone other than him at #2 - Beal, Barnes, whoever - would've been an exponentially better pick. 

I've probably mentioned here before, but I was actually in school with HB both years, and I was actually disappointed in how he had performed while there.  I wasn't sure he was going to be able to do what he did in the playoffs last year.  I knew he had the ability, I just didn't know if he could do it.  BUT, again, when it came to the draft, I much rather would've taken him to find out if he could rather than take the risk of drafting MKG and his non-existent offensive game.

 

I just think that MKG's performance thus far has shown that for as amazing as he is defensively, he will never significantly improve enough offensively to justify that #2 pick.  He's essentially Stacey Augmon. 
 



#17 jdpanther5

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 04:36 PM

MKG is a better prospect than Barnes by every statistical measure aside from scoring (and Barnes averages a whopping 0.8 more points). Then consider the fact that MKG is already a lockdown defender and is 16 months younger...

I'm a UNC fan who didn't want MKG, but I can't get behind this. Barnes is likely on the block due to the Warriors struggling a bit of late, and he could certainly be had for much less than what's being discussed.

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#18 Proudiddy

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 04:44 PM

MKG is a better prospect than Barnes by every statistical measure aside from scoring (and Barnes averages a whopping 0.8 more points). Then consider the fact that MKG is already a lockdown defender and is 16 months younger...

I'm a UNC fan who didn't want MKG, but I can't get behind this. Barnes is likely on the block due to the Warriors struggling a bit of late, and he could certainly be had for much less than what's being discussed.

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I don't think MKG "is a better prospect than Barnes in every statistical measure aside from scoring."  And regardless, when our team needs a wing scorer that can create his own shot or shots for others, then it kind of negates everything else that MKG does.  We're sound defensively without him...  NOT AS SOUND, but still really good.  We need work on offense, specifically perimeter shooting/scoring.

 

http://www.nba.com/a...201213;season=r
 



#19 RoaringRiot

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 05:04 PM

Yeah, that angle doesn't bother me much because I'm used to our franchise making huge mistakes in the draft and then spending the subsequent years trying to fix what they messed up, lol.  We've done it for our entire existence - outside of Kemba.

So, that's why I would be all for it.

As far as what we did that draft...  I didn't know that I wanted Barnes that high per se, BUT I knew with certainty that I DID NOT want MKG.  So, to me, anyone other than him at #2 - Beal, Barnes, whoever - would've been an exponentially better pick. 

I've probably mentioned here before, but I was actually in school with HB still both years, and I was actually disappointed in how he had performed while there.  I wasn't sure he was going to be able to do what he did in the playoffs last year.  I knew he had the ability, I just didn't know if he could do it.  BUT, again, when it came to the draft, I much rather would've taken him to find out if he could rather than take the risk of drafting MKG and his non-existent offensive game.

 

I just think that MKG's performance thus far has shown that for as amazing as he is defensively, he will never significantly improve enough offensively to justify that #2 pick.  He's essentially Stacey Augmon. 
 

 

 

I didn't think we could draft Barnes at #2 either.  Everyone always screams "trade down", but that wasn't going to happen in that draft.  After AD there were ZERO players that fit the obvious #2.  I was also disappointed with HB at UNC, but I believed his game would be better against NBA "defenses".  I kept hearing the know that he couldn't drive to the rim - that's a load of poo.  

 

I'm just not ready to give up on MKG.  I think if we can get a scoring 2 to go with Kemba and Big Al, along with a little-more-than-serviceable 4, it will take offensive pressure off of MKG and make him the 5th option.  He can still rebound, get to the rim, and finish.  

 

Again...I'd much rather have HB.  But the thought of giving up so much for him just freaking kills me.  At some point someone's got to get ONE of these draft picks right.  



#20 Manos

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 05:15 PM

I'd give them hendo, Gordon and a Portland's pick for Barnes. Offensively him and mkg will coexist and mkg is a versatile enough defender to guard any perimeter player so no problem on that end either. Do not give up on mkg!!!!! He isn't ever going to be mj but he could be someone's pippen, don't give that away.

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#21 Proudiddy

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 05:28 PM

I'd give them hendo, Gordon and a Portland's pick for Barnes. Offensively him and mkg will coexist and mkg is a versatile enough defender to guard any perimeter player so no problem on that end either. Do not give up on mkg!!!!! He isn't ever going to be mj but he could be someone's pippen, don't give that away.

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I'm not trying to be too hard on him, I just don't think we should've ever taken him with the #2 and I don't ever see his shot improving enough to be consistent from anywhere on the court...  Unless it's a layup or a dunk, he has to feel like the luckiest man in the NBA when it goes in.

 

Some guys have hitches in their shots - Reggie Miller, Larry Bird, Michael Redd, Ben Gordon, Jason Terry, etc., but all of those guys were able to shoot and score.  MKG's hitch is 100x worse than any of those guys because it's not fluid.  I think the difference is, with all those examples, once the ball was moving forward (the actual pushing of the ball towards the goal, rather than the windup), it didn't stop.  MKG's hitch is so abrupt it just destroys all rhythm and because of that, I don't think it can ever be fixed.  He's already been with Mark Price since the start of the offseason, and to this point, we've seen zero improvement.

 

His ability to finish at the rim is AMAZING.  His defensive abilities and rebounding for his position are off the charts.  BUT, without a shot, he will not ever come anywhere near Pippen.  And I just don't see him changing his shot.

I like your idea though.  I'd rather hold onto MKG if it is between he and Hendo. 



#22 jdpanther5

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 05:37 PM

I don't think MKG "is a better prospect than Barnes in every statistical measure aside from scoring." And regardless, when our team needs a wing scorer that can create his own shot or shots for others, then it kind of negates everything else that MKG does. We're sound defensively without him... NOT AS SOUND, but still really good. We need work on offense, specifically perimeter shooting/scoring.

http://www.nba.com/a...201213;season=r


The problem is that Barnes isn't an impact scorer, like I said he only scores .8 more in slightly higher minutes. He hasn't shown he can create for himself or others either.

I'll take the do-it-all player over the scorer (or in this case "scorer") every time. But even if you prefer the scorer, throwing in a potential top ten pick to get a similar prospect is simply an overpay.

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#23 Proudiddy

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 05:41 PM

I was just thinking though... What if we did complete the trade for Turner without using our first rounder somehow?  Perhaps using Sessions as well?

 

And then moving Hendo and the first for Barnes?

 

If we were able to complete the Turner trade without giving up the Portland pick, and then were able to make the move for Barnes, that gives us a starting lineup of:

 

C Jefferson

PF McRoberts (ughhh)

SF Barnes

SG Kidd-Gilchrist
PG Kemba

 

With Turner as an interchangeable part from the 1-3 as the sixth man.  Bring Turner in to run the point when Kemba rests, AND at times run with Kemba so Kemba can do what he does best - SCORE.



#24 Proudiddy

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 05:43 PM

The problem is that Barnes isn't an impact scorer, like I said he only scores .8 more in slightly higher minutes. He hasn't shown he can create for himself or others either.

I'll take the do-it-all player over the scorer (or in this case "scorer") every time. But even if you prefer the scorer, throwing in a potential top ten pick to get a similar prospect is simply an overpay.

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Did you watch him in the playoffs last season, when everyone says the level of play actually goes up compared to the regular season?

 

He has struggled this season because they're bringing him off the bench, he's having difficulty adjusting, and by most accounts, is very unhappy because of it.  He isn't able to play his game in his current role.
 



#25 RoaringRiot

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 05:44 PM

The problem is that Barnes isn't an impact scorer, like I said he only scores .8 more in slightly higher minutes. He hasn't shown he can create for himself or others either.

I'll take the do-it-all player over the scorer (or in this case "scorer") every time. But even if you prefer the scorer, throwing in a potential top ten pick to get a similar prospect is simply an overpay.

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When Barnes is on the floor he's never any higher than the 4th option. There are a ton of scorers on that team. If he became the 2-3 option I think you'd see much more production. He's proven he can nail a 3-pointer. Would be great having Al kick it to him rather than Hendo.

#26 Proudiddy

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 05:49 PM

I hate doing these things because they are so far fetched and almost impossible to pull off when you're talking about a 3-team deal, but I actually view these as two separate deals that play off of one another.  Also, I don't buy that this trade would drop us by 2 wins, lol...

 

http://espn.go.com/n...tradeId=m2esonr

 



#27 jdpanther5

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 06:01 PM

When Barnes is on the floor he's never any higher than the 4th option. There are a ton of scorers on that team. If he became the 2-3 option I think you'd see much more production. He's proven he can nail a 3-pointer. Would be great having Al kick it to him rather than Hendo.


I'd trade Hendo for him in a second, but not MKG. Having a wing that can actually hit a three would do wonders for Kemba, MKG, and even help Al.

That said, this team was much worse with MKG out, and I think replacing him with Barnes would have an overall negative impact. But MKG's slashing and Barnes' shooting would actually be a very good complement.

IF the Warriors were to move Barnes, they'd likely find Hendo more enticing anyway as he could give them some much-needed bench scoring. They're treading water as the eighth seed so they're probably gonna have to move a rookie contract for immediate help, and I don't see them trading Thompson.

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#28 Manos

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 06:31 PM

I'm not trying to be too hard on him, I just don't think we should've ever taken him with the #2 and I don't ever see his shot improving enough to be consistent from anywhere on the court... Unless it's a layup or a dunk, he has to feel like the luckiest man in the NBA when it goes in.

Some guys have hitches in their shots - Reggie Miller, Larry Bird, Michael Redd, Ben Gordon, Jason Terry, etc., but all of those guys were able to shoot and score. MKG's hitch is 100x worse than any of those guys because it's not fluid. I think the difference is, with all those examples, once the ball was moving forward (the actual pushing of the ball towards the goal, rather than the windup), it didn't stop. MKG's hitch is so abrupt it just destroys all rhythm and because of that, I don't think it can ever be fixed. He's already been with Mark Price since the start of the offseason, and to this point, we've seen zero improvement.

His ability to finish at the rim is AMAZING. His defensive abilities and rebounding for his position are off the charts. BUT, without a shot, he will not ever come anywhere near Pippen. And I just don't see him changing his shot.

I like your idea though. I'd rather hold onto MKG if it is between he and Hendo.


I understand his shot is hideous; I have zero idea how someone develops that kind of motion. However I think he can work on it and get to a point where you have to at least respect his shot. He isn't going to be Reggie Miller but if he just get a 33% corner three then he will be fine. He does everything else so well with potential to get better I would hate for the team to give up on him. Is he even 20 yet?

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#29 jdpanther5

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 07:00 PM

I hate doing these things because they are so far fetched and almost impossible to pull off when you're talking about a 3-team deal, but I actually view these as two separate deals that play off of one another.  Also, I don't buy that this trade would drop us by 2 wins, lol...

 

http://espn.go.com/n...tradeId=m2esonr

 

 

This could work, though I think if we sent Ramon to Golden State I think it'd give them greater incentive. How about this?

 

http://espn.go.com/n...tradeId=kgdnf3z

 

We'd also send the Sixers the Portland pick. Warriors use their Richard Jefferson trade exception to take on both Hendo and Ramon, and the 76ers get a pick and take on no other salary past this season. It also works if we take on JRich's contract:

 

http://espn.go.com/n...tradeId=k8x584v 



#30 Proudiddy

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 07:16 PM

Yeah, that looks a lot more doable for them, and I think they'd (GSW) be more willing to do that deal getting Hendo and Sessions, whereas Philly really does just want the picks and space.  I'd do that in a millisecond, lol.




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