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#16 MHS831

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 11:48 AM

all good DEs have field days against weak LTs.

 

not all DEs have field days against weak LTs.

 

see what I did there?

 

I sure did!

 

Watch the tape vs. the better tackles he faced--Staley, even Kalil (who struggled a bit in 2014), and Jake Long (St. Louis).  That is what concerns me.  Not down on Hardy, just not convinced he is elite yet.



#17 L-TownCat

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 11:54 AM

I sure did!

Watch the tape vs. the better tackles he faced--Staley, even Kalil (who struggled a bit in 2014), and Jake Long (St. Louis). That is what concerns me. Not down on Hardy, just not convinced he is elite yet.


I hate to be that guy who brings in the Pep comparisons but he was a guy that would work a probowler and get handled by a 3rd stringer or a rookie. I would wager there are more lesser OTs than elite ones and if I'm playing percentages I'd take Hardy destroying the weak LTs of which there are more of than Pep doing the same to the elite guys which there are less of.

#18 MHS831

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 11:58 AM

I hate to be that guy who brings in the Pep comparisons but he was a guy that would work a probowler and get handled by a 3rd stringer or a rookie. I would wager there are more lesser OTs than elite ones and if I'm playing percentages I'd take Hardy destroying the weak LTs of which there are more of than Pep doing the same to the elite guys which there are less of.

 

You are right, and I think we had the same concerns with Pep.  And the lack of talent at LT is a real problem in the NFL.  Hardy did some of his damage from the inside, which makes him more valuable, in our system.  I just hate to see that much cap going to what we already have.  Do you think Hardy is elite--worth $12-14 million?  I am not there yet.



#19 L-TownCat

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:11 PM

You are right, and I think we had the same concerns with Pep. And the lack of talent at LT is a real problem in the NFL. Hardy did some of his damage from the inside, which makes him more valuable, in our system. I just hate to see that much cap going to what we already have. Do you think Hardy is elite--worth $12-14 million? I am not there yet.


Elite is just a word that I don't put a lot of value in. The question is if we don't pay him who makes up those 15 sacks? It would be even worse with teams focussing on CJ cutting his production thereby creating a loss of up to 20 sacks from our stat sheet. Scary stuff my man. Sometimes you just have to pay the piper to keep from going down the shitter.

#20 CRA

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:35 PM

You are right, and I think we had the same concerns with Pep. And the lack of talent at LT is a real problem in the NFL. Hardy did some of his damage from the inside, which makes him more valuable, in our system. I just hate to see that much cap going to what we already have. Do you think Hardy is elite--worth $12-14 million? I am not there yet.

I think super young potential studs in Star and KK make his diversity to go inside less important in comparison to if we had Fua and McClain at DT

#21 CRA

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:37 PM

I hate to be that guy who brings in the Pep comparisons but he was a guy that would work a probowler and get handled by a 3rd stringer or a rookie. I would wager there are more lesser OTs than elite ones and if I'm playing percentages I'd take Hardy destroying the weak LTs of which there are more of than Pep doing the same to the elite guys which there are less of.


I think Pep was elite bc of how diverse he was.....not that he could dominate every man he lined up against.

I've seen Byron Bell go up against elite pass rushers and they did nothing......doesn't make them poo and Bell good

#22 L-TownCat

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:46 PM

I think Pep was elite bc of how diverse he was.....not that he could dominate every man he lined up against.

I've seen Byron Bell go up against elite pass rushers and they did nothing......doesn't make them poo and Bell good

 

Hardy is diverse as well.  How and who Pep/Hardy performed against isn't really all that important.  The fact is that we are stuck in a tough situation with Hardy being that the only option that doesn't translate to a weaker defense is to pay Hardy right now.  I don't like the amount he will command but it could really hurt that front four without him and expose an already weak secondary.



#23 Jangler

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:57 PM

Hardy will try and squeeze out big bucks, we will tag him which will make other teams try and negotiate with Gettleman to take less compensation than two 1s.  Gettleman will entertain that or not.  If he sticks to 2  1s then either they give him huge bucks and we get the picks or Hardy won't get another offer and will play for the tag and this all plays out again next year, he accepts what we are offering him, or we find a trade partner and get compensation.  In any event we really hold the cards and we won't have to essentially meet his demands of 14 million.  I think we offer him something in the 10 million range with incentives that could grow the contract to 14 million based on things like getting 20 sacks, making the pro-bowl, All pro status, going to the superbowl, etc.  If he can do all that, he deserves the extra bucks.

 

Yup, Hardy seems like a player that needs motivation to play, so pay him to play.



#24 MHS831

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:33 PM

I think super young potential studs in Star and KK make his diversity to go inside less important in comparison to if we had Fua and McClain at DT

 

Very good point.  I also think the draft is deep at DT and we could add another solid DT. 
 



#25 TheMaulClaw

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 02:02 PM

I think super young potential studs in Star and KK make his diversity to go inside less important in comparison to if we had Fua and McClain at DT

 

I think everyone likes to throw out the sack stat.  Which is good.

 

What makes Greg elite is his ability to stop the run.  Because of his inside experience we're a team that's really good at pressing the pocket.

 

I think CJ and Hardy are possibly the best 4-3 DE's against the run in the NFL, especially coupled with Star and Edwards.



#26 El Chingon

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 04:02 PM

some interesting info.



#27 SevyDamus

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 07:28 PM

I'd be down with this. I can totally understand why Greg Hardy wants a lot of money - he's played better than Charles Johnson did prior to getting his payday. At the same time, this is a new regime and there were specific reasons we gave him that money (namely, to keep him from going to Atlanta) that simply don't apply here. Give him some money, but make him work for it if he wants the right to more than CJ and be on a winning team.


Slow down buddy! I recall CJ balling out with a bunch of scrubs on the line he's earned his money & considering he would've ended up in Atlanta. Hardy has far superior talent to help him.

#28 SevyDamus

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 07:32 PM

I think super young potential studs in Star and KK make his diversity to go inside less important in comparison to if we had Fua and McClain at DT


Exactly right. Which is a big reason why breaking the bank for Hardy isn't worth it. Star & KK will help ease the hit.

#29 nosuchthingasapanther

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 07:37 PM

Exactly right. Which is a big reason why breaking the bank for Hardy isn't worth it. Star & KK will help ease the hit.

 

with the offense appearing to become more of a liability than an asset, it'll pay to keep the defense as strong as possible.
 



#30 SevyDamus

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:00 AM

with the offense appearing to become more of a liability than an asset, it'll pay to keep the defense as strong as possible.


True! Or we could speed up the process by getting sum picks & free up a whole bunch of cap & being able to fill needs with the extra cash & picks. With the bad contract being over in a year or 2 from Hurney.


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