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Things Gettleman has said in the past and what we can learn from them...


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#16 1989

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 04:34 PM

Amazing post!



#17 TheNewStandard

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 04:46 PM

Great post, thanks!

As much as people hate the move to tag Hardy, it's obvious Gettleman's philosophy is to have an elite pass rush first and everything else will feed off that. Hardy is the best pass rushing RE in the league and without him, we'd need to upgrade every DB position and find another RE who can stop the rush, cover and pass rush, not to mention line up at DT when called upon.

People don't understand this, the best offense is a good defense and defense wins championships. DBs are at a disadvantage to begin with as the league is geared towards the pass, so why throw money at a problem that's handicapped from the get go? You don't, you use the money where you get the most production and that is by getting to the QB.

#18 NJPanthers12

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 04:48 PM

Uh oh. You did it now. Proudiddy is going to ban you for being intelligent and not hating "Gettledouche"

#19 rayzor

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 06:11 PM

Well it's not like we are completely void of talent and aren't going to add more. We are just taking a different approach. If it blows up in his face, then he will have to deal with that. But if it works, he's a genius. It's wait and see at this point.

 

actually, yes, we are devoid of talent at WR and LT.

same could be said for the secondary as well since the guys we had who were good enough to start are now with other teams and we've done nothing to replace them.

hurney had this huge problem in that he was overly confident and unwavering in his philosophy of building/managing a team to the detriment of the team. it appears that gettleman might be suffering from the same illness.

he has a plan, but what if things don't fall the way he thought. what is plan b? is he able willing to adjust to changing situations that impact his plan? was he counting on there being more FAs available when the market settled down? is he willing to deviate from his draft philosophy if we still have a blank slate at WR/LT/CB/S?

is he married to the idea of keeping hardy and handicapping the rest of the team just so we have a killer pass rush (even if that means we don't protect cam or decent WRs)?

his success last year doesn't give him a free pass this year. he hasn't helped build a consistent winner yet. he has one season under his belt. one winning season. is year two going to see a regression? how big of a regression?

i appreciate what he did last year, but i need more before i herald him as a magic man. i may have bought it before and i may have been on his bandwagon before the hire, but i need to some more than what we've seen this year.

and again, just because i know someone is going to say it, i am not wanting movement for movement's sake. there are good moves to be made and we need to make them.

if the cap is so bad that we can't afford to fill out a roster, then we shouldn't have tagged hardy. if we have no WRs on the team and only saved $2mil from cutting smith and still have no money to bring anyone in, then cutting smith was a mistake. if WRs are saying they'd rather not play here because of cutting smith, then cutting smith was a mistake.

did gettleman think through all possibilities before tagging hardy and cutting smith? i don't know. probably. the problem is, did he care what the possible negative impacts would be by doing those two things or was he going to do it regardless of outcome and impact?

all there are right now are questions about gettleman and very little to warrant a positive view. right now those two main movements (tagging hardy and cutting smith) have had no positive impact on the team.
 



#20 rayzor

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 06:17 PM

Great post, thanks!

As much as people hate the move to tag Hardy, it's obvious Gettleman's philosophy is to have an elite pass rush first and everything else will feed off that. Hardy is the best pass rushing RE in the league and without him, we'd need to upgrade every DB position and find another RE who can stop the rush, cover and pass rush, not to mention line up at DT when called upon.

People don't understand this, the best offense is a good defense and defense wins championships. DBs are at a disadvantage to begin with as the league is geared towards the pass, so why throw money at a problem that's handicapped from the get go? You don't, you use the money where you get the most production and that is by getting to the QB.

 

do you have to do that by crippling the team? because that's exactly what we are doing. is it so important that it has to take up 20% of your cap...and that's just two players? is it worth using 50% of your defensive cap on two players?

 

pass rush is important, but not that important.

 

i don't care how elite your pass rush is, they don't catch balls and they don't protect the QBs blind side. we can't afford to pay FAs to even fill out our depleted roster because we tagged hardy. and yes, that is gettleman's fault. he had a choice, tag hardy or fill out  the roster and he chose to be without WRs, starting DBs, and an LT all so we could have that elite pass rush. i know he'll get someone eventually to come in and there's the draft, but will he focus in on those three areas in the draft or is he stuck on getting the best player regardless of position?

 

that remains to be seen.



#21 ed bell

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 06:26 PM

You simply can't let Hardy walk for nothing. We can't know what happened up to the tag being applied, so in the end you are left with two immediate options. Gettleman took the only one that made sense pretty draft. He can't be faulted for that. What is next for Hardy? Not sure, but I sure can't fault Gettleman for protecting our interest in him regardless of the perceived damage it does to our apparent cap right now. Without a final draft class in our stable, how the hell can you possibly freak out about holes perceived right now? It's an exercise in hand wringing not worth my time, but as we have seen before, some folks want every opportunity to jump off the cliff. Knock yourselves out.

#22 rayzor

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 06:33 PM

You simply can't let Hardy walk for nothing. We can't know what happened up to the tag being applied, so in the end you are left with two immediate options. Gettleman took the only one that made sense pretty draft. He can't be faulted for that. What is next for Hardy? Not sure, but I sure can't fault Gettleman for protecting our interest in him regardless of the perceived damage it does to our apparent cap right now. Without a final draft class in our stable, how the hell can you possibly freak out about holes perceived right now? It's an exercise in hand wringing not worth my time, but as we have seen before, some folks want every opportunity to jump off the cliff. Knock yourselves out.

 

it wouldn't be for nothing.

 

it would be for cap space, which we don't have but could have used for WRs and an LT and maybe a DB or two.

 

we had a choice between hardy or multiple starters. we chose to keep hardy and beg for scrap WRs, DBs, and OTs.

 

our pass rush and front seven would still have been dominant without hardy. it wouldn't have crippled us the way tagging him has.



#23 iamhubby1

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 06:34 PM

So this turned into a rayzor worry thread? Nice to have you back.

2 weeks into FA and we are doomed? 4/5 of our season starting O-line is back. Our Defense should be just as good, if not better because of more experience. Just because we have no WR the sky is falling? Not buying, sorry. WR was a weakness last year. We could field 3 Huddlers and not be much worse than last year.

But hellz. Let's worry.

Sure we could use a #1WR. We have needed one for years. But we won 12 games without one. I see no reason to think we will fall off the map if we go into the season without one this year. But then again, I ain't the worry wart some folks are.

#24 rayzor

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 06:36 PM

So this turned into a rayzor worry thread? Nice to have you back.

2 weeks into FA and we are doomed? 4/5 of our season starting O-line is back. Our Defense should be just as good, if not better because of more experience. Just because we have no WR the sky is falling? Not buying, sorry. WR was a weakness last year. We could field 3 Huddlers and not be much worse than last year.

But hellz. Let's worry.

Sure we could use a #1WR. We have needed one for years. But we won 12 games without one. I see no reason to think we will fall off the map if we go into the season without one this year. But then again, I ain't the worry wart some folks are.

 

i need to see results. that's the way it's always been.



#25 XClown1986

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 06:37 PM

actually, yes, we are devoid of talent at WR and LT.

same could be said for the secondary as well since the guys we had who were good enough to start are now with other teams and we've done nothing to replace them.

hurney had this huge problem in that he was overly confident and unwavering in his philosophy of building/managing a team to the detriment of the team. it appears that gettleman might be suffering from the same illness.

he has a plan, but what if things don't fall the way he thought. what is plan b? is he able willing to adjust to changing situations that impact his plan? was he counting on there being more FAs available when the market settled down? is he willing to deviate from his draft philosophy if we still have a blank slate at WR/LT/CB/S?

is he married to the idea of keeping hardy and handicapping the rest of the team just so we have a killer pass rush (even if that means we don't protect cam or decent WRs)?

his success last year doesn't give him a free pass this year. he hasn't helped build a consistent winner yet. he has one season under his belt. one winning season. is year two going to see a regression? how big of a regression?

i appreciate what he did last year, but i need more before i herald him as a magic man. i may have bought it before and i may have been on his bandwagon before the hire, but i need to some more than what we've seen this year.

and again, just because i know someone is going to say it, i am not wanting movement for movement's sake. there are good moves to be made and we need to make them.

if the cap is so bad that we can't afford to fill out a roster, then we shouldn't have tagged hardy. if we have no WRs on the team and only saved $2mil from cutting smith and still have no money to bring anyone in, then cutting smith was a mistake. if WRs are saying they'd rather not play here because of cutting smith, then cutting smith was a mistake.

did gettleman think through all possibilities before tagging hardy and cutting smith? i don't know. probably. the problem is, did he care what the possible negative impacts would be by doing those two things or was he going to do it regardless of outcome and impact?

all there are right now are questions about gettleman and very little to warrant a positive view. right now those two main movements (tagging hardy and cutting smith) have had no positive impact on the team.
 

 

Ok but now you are making the assumption that tagging Hardy and cutting Smith directly coincides with our lack of free agency moves. That is pure speculation on your part and holds no water. How do you know Gettleman wouldn't have sat on most of that 13.1 mill that Hardy is getting? We don't know. How do you know he would've overpaid (yes he would've had to overpay) to get one of the top receivers or tackles on the market? From everything Gettleman is saying, he would've executed free agency this way whether he had 8 million or 18 million to spend. It's about philosophy. You keep your core, you draft smart, and don't pay a guy more than he is worth when plugging holes in free agency. We will be riding out the first wave of free agency every season unless we are able to get a guy we want at his fair-market value, period. This is how our new GM works and what most of us asked for when we were dealing with Hurney's stupidity in contract negotiations.

 

Is this easy for me to sit through? Absolutely not. Am I worried? You're damn right. But hell, what am I supposed to do about it? I'll just have to see it through like everyone else.



#26 rayzor

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 06:43 PM

Ok but now you are making the assumption that tagging Hardy and cutting Smith directly coincides with our lack of free agency moves. That is pure speculation on your part and holds no water. How do you know Gettleman wouldn't have sat on most of that 13.1 mill that Hardy is getting? We don't know. How do you know he would've overpaid (yes he would've had to overpay) to get one of the top receivers or tackles on the market? From everything Gettleman is saying, he would've executed free agency this way whether he had 8 million or 18 million to spend. It's about philosophy. You keep your core, you draft smart, and don't pay a guy more than he is worth when plugging holes in free agency. We will be riding out the first wave of free agency every season unless we are able to get a guy we want at his fair-market value, period. This is how our new GM works and what most of us asked for when we were dealing with Hurney's stupidity in contract negotiations.

 

Is this easy for me to sit through? Absolutely not. Am I worried? You're damn right. But hell, what am I supposed to do about it? I'll just have to see it through like everyone else.

 

tagging hardy absolutely does coincide with our ability to make free agent moves.

 

the smith effect on FAs coming in is speculation, but the fact that cutting the only viable option we had on the roster and still not having enough to pay for any WR capable of even just replacing his production puts us behind the 8 ball. we had more than enough holes to fill at WR without cutting smith. that just made the need even greater.

 

so far all he's done is create more needs while taking away the ability to pay for filling them.
 



#27 XClown1986

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 06:48 PM

tagging hardy absolutely does coincide with our ability to make free agent moves.

 

the smith effect on FAs coming in is speculation, but the fact that cutting the only viable option we had on the roster and still not having enough to pay for any WR capable of even just replacing his production puts us behind the 8 ball. we had more than enough holes to fill at WR without cutting smith. that just made the need even greater.

 

so far all he's done is create more needs while taking away the ability to pay for filling them.
 

 

Tagging Hardy reflects ABILITY. It doesn't indicate that we WOULD have spent 13 million on other players at need positions at all. Therefore, it's speculation. Hell we might have tried to roll a lot of that into next season trying to get out of the hole quicker. We just don't know. In the end, Gettleman determined Hardy was worth the tag. So what's done is done, and our front 7 remains elite.

 

If we let Hardy walk, defensive end becomes a need. Wide receiver was already a need. He actually prevented another hole by tagging him.



#28 rayzor

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 06:54 PM

Tagging Hardy reflects ABILITY. It doesn't indicate that we WOULD have spent 13 million on other players at need positions at all. Therefore, it's speculation. Hell we might have tried to roll a lot of that into next season trying to get out of the hole quicker. We just don't know. In the end, Gettleman determined Hardy was worth the tag. So what's done is done, and our front 7 remains elite.

 

If we let Hardy walk, defensive end becomes a need. Wide receiver was already a need. He actually prevented another hole by tagging him.

c'mon, you don't think that we would have picked up an LT or WR or a DB if we had the money?

 

and if we let hardy walk, DE isn't a need. it's weaker, but not nearly the need that exists at WR, DB, and LT where we really have none.

 

and again, by tagging him he handicapped our ability to address multiple positions and ensured that we would have major issues filling those needs.

 

and also again, the DL would still be dominant without hardy and the front seven would remain elite. the amount of improvement that star and short should make and the growth of klein will make it easy for whoever fills in for hardy.

 

i don't see how creating a situation where you are inable to rebuild your depleted team is a good thing. if the ability to sign FAs to fill big holes is there and you choose not to, that's one thing. but actually creating a situation that you take that ability to choose away only hurts you and leaves you looking for excuses.



#29 ed bell

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 06:58 PM

Letting Hardy walk is giving away something of huge value for free.

#30 rayzor

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 07:02 PM

Letting Hardy walk is giving away something of huge value for free.

 

no. it's making a decision whether or not you want to buy a mercedes and live on ramen noodles the rest of your life or settle for a honda and be able to eat normal foods.

 

he was a free agent that we bought for $13mil and that decision forces us to look for table scraps.
 




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