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Member Since 29 Nov 2008
Last Active May 20 2015 09:13 PM

#3370343 Still a litte Confused why we passed over .......

Posted by Woodie on 19 May 2015 - 09:17 AM

they had a first round grade on funchess and a 2nd round grade on strong.


that's why we (and a lot of other teams) passed on strong. the teams actually doing the drafting didn't have him hyped like the draftniks did.


Hype is the great evil of the NFL draft.  It makes the casual fan feel like master evaluators and knowledgeable insiders, when the reality is all they understand are superficial bullet points of a prospect. 


Many, many fans don't seem to realize that the Mel Kipers and Mike Mayocks of the world do not really know what they are talking about and are only there for fun and to give fans something to talk about.  Unfortunately, it's the fans that take these so-called experts' word as gospel that typically scream the loudest about reaches and mistakes.   

#3352952 Grade the Panthers Day 3 and Overall Draft.

Posted by Woodie on 03 May 2015 - 12:41 PM

Its called being a fan.  We know are opinion doesnt matter to the team but we still like to express them. 


Most on this board trust Gettleman. 


I don't have a problem with people expressing their opinion.  But it's the venom and "I know better than Gettleman" attitude that some express that I find silly.  I get why some people are not happy.  Heck, I'm not 100% sold myself, but we all need to at least acknowledge the other side of the coin we are complaining about. 


To be honest, I think the biggest reason most are unhappy is not really because of who we picked, but the fact it's not who they wanted or thought we should pick.  And when we take a player we are unfamiliar with, our first instinct is to feel like it was a bad pick.  After all, if they were any good, wouldn't we have heard something about them.  I remember reading similar things about Bene last year when we took him.  So, one thing I've learned is to put more trust into Gettleman than the rankings the talking heads put out there. 

#3352939 Grade the Panthers Day 3 and Overall Draft.

Posted by Woodie on 03 May 2015 - 12:30 PM

As for my grade, I'll give it the only reasonable grade I can an I = incomplete.  It's simply too soon to tell right now.  I would have preferred not to have given up our 3rd, but other than that, I have no problem with any of the trades.


Thompson - I didn't like the pick at the time.  But that was more because I wanted someone else, than anything about Shaq as a player.  I think he'll actually be a very good addition to our defense, and will make us much more dangerous.  And I get the impression that McDermott has been limited in what he would like to do because we didn't have the personnel, but Shaq may allow him to be more creative in his game planning and play calling.


Funchess - He was one guy I really didn't want heading into the draft; I just saw him as a KB lite, and felt we needed more speed instead.  After researching him a bit more, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.  He's probably more athletic than I gave him credit for, and may be a little better at YAC and getting downfield than KB.  So, I'll reserve judgment until I see how we use him, and how effective he will be.  But I do see the matchup problems he'll create along side of KB.


Williams - This pick is one I loved.  I wanted a LT, but am happy to have a true road grader next to Turner.  That should really open up our running game, which in turn will help open up our passing game.  I see us as a much more complete and balanced offense this season.


Mayo - I was shocked at the pick because he was a no-name that I knew nothing about.  And even since he was taken, there's little to be found except some short highlights.  But I like what I saw from those highlights.  He seems to be a relentless player with a great motor and diagnoses the play pretty well.  He also appears to be a very good tackler that goes for the strip on every tackle.  In other words, he seems like a ST demon.  He also looks to potentially be a decent backup, but we'll have to wait and see for that.


Artis-Payne - Loved this pick as well...particularly where we got him.  There were other backs I wanted more, but they all went much earlier (this is the position I wanted to use our 3rd on).  So, under the circumstances, I feel good that we came away from the draft with a legitimate RB that can be a solid backup and emergency starter.  I don't think he'll ever be a star, but I do see him as quality depth.

#3352904 Grade the Panthers Day 3 and Overall Draft.

Posted by Woodie on 03 May 2015 - 12:06 PM

I love how so many seem to know where players should have been taken and who would have been the better pick based on rankings by the Mike Mayocks of the world and names they've heard.  The reality is that if every NFL team passes on a guy for 6+ rounds that Mayock had rated as a 2nd or 3rd round value, then maybe he's not someone you should be taking all that seriously.  Obviously, his evaluation skills are not all that advanced by NFL standards...despite all his cute lingo and self promotion.


And I am even more amused by the level of hate most seem to have for the pick of a player they have never even heard of, let alone done even one second of research on prior to the pick.  I have no idea if Mayo will turn out to be any good or not, but bashing the pick based simply on the fact that I have never heard of him would be beyond ludicrous.  And being mad because we did not take someone whose name you know and heard could have been a 2nd or 3rd round pick is just as silly.   

#3311851 Phillip Dorsett to meet with Panthers

Posted by Woodie on 04 April 2015 - 12:01 PM

So far I've been somewhat lukewarm on Dorsett.  2nd or 3rd round is about where I thought he should go.  However, I just went back and looked at some of his clips on draftbreakdown, and I'm starting to re-think my position. 


I'm not 100% sold on him as a 1st round pick yet, but it's not as outlandish an idea as I once thought.  Not that I think he's the greatest receiver since Jerry Rice or anything, but for me it's about fit.  Last year, I felt our biggest need was a guy that could turn nothing into something.  Yes, we need speed, but we need more than just the type of speed that can take the top off, we need the kind of speed that can take a short 5 yard reception and turn it into a 30 yard gain in the blink of an eye.  And that's the kind of speed Dorsett has.


That's what was so enticing about Brandon Cooks last year.  It's not the deep ball, it's the danger a player like this causes the defense.  Now, you can find all kinds of track guys with that kind of speed, but usually they can't catch, so are useless on the football field.  But the thing I find most impressive about Dorsett is not his speed, but the fact he is a good hands catcher.  He's not going to give you much as a blocker, but as a receiver, I think he's the exact type to open things up for KB (and our run game) and would perfectly compliment Benjamin's strengths.  He's a guy you have to pay attention to, or he can make you pay dearly for the oversight.  And that, IMO, is the biggest missing ingredient for our offense.  If we added nothing but him to what we already have, I think our offense will be exponentially better than last year...not just because of what he would do, but what his presence would allow the rest of our playmakers to do as well.


Sometimes it's not who's the better overall player, but who's the better fit for your team.   

#3307996 Why drafting a RB or defense won't solve our issues.

Posted by Woodie on 31 March 2015 - 11:07 PM

If "they" had Kugbila rated higher than Bakhtiari, then that tells you a lot doesn't it? What it tells me is that you need an OT, terribly, but you have an OG rated higher than the OT. Yet, you STILL haven't drafted an OT, EVER, in your history with a team that needed OTs two or three years before Gettleman even got here. But, go ahead and keep on ignoring the OBVIOUS needs and see where that gets you. The cast offs and UDFAs will do you just fine. The first year Gettleman came to Carolina they played his old team and whipped up on the Giants to the tune of 38-0. Do you remember how that O-Line looked for Eli? I'm just hoping the same doesn't happen here. #staywoke


How do you know how good Kugbila is/could have been?  You haven't seen him practice, much less play as a Panther.  He's ben injured pretty much the whole time he's been here.  That's more about bad luck, and something that was impossible for anyone to foresee when he was drafted.  Him failing here (so far) has nothing to do with being a busted pick, just an unfortunate one.  And while you most likely hadn't of him before the draft (99.99999999% of fans here didn't either), after he was drafted I did quite a bit of reading on him, and the general sense is that teams were higher on him than the media experts.  I saw a couple of places that said multiple teams expected him to go in the 4th round range...which is exactly where we took him.


To be clear, I'm not arguing for him, I knew nothing about him before the pick, and still only have little knowledge about him as a player.  I'm just pointing out that just because the Mel Kiper's of the world didn't have anything on him doesn't mean he didn't have the potential to be solid or that actual team scouts didn't have him on their radar.  

#3306209 Panthers top 5 draft targets

Posted by Woodie on 31 March 2015 - 12:05 AM

I'm not into drafting RB in the 1st round anymore because the position is devalued. . I also don't like the fact you're drafting a RB in the 1st round to be in a commitee. . Are you getting value out of him in his rookie deal when he is in a commitee backfield. . Then it's time to sign him to a new deal and the 3-4 year shelf life kicks in.. I just don't see the value in a 1st round RB anymore. .


I think this is a common mistake many fans here are making.  Yes, the RB position has generally been devalued in the league, but not by the Panthers.  They still want to be a run oriented team (think of they way the Seahawks use Lynch).  The problem has been that our RB's have either been injured or have lost a few steps, so the production hasn't looked very good outside of Cam.  But that didn't stop them from trying time and time again to get a running game going.  IMO, I think if Gurley is there, he is without a doubt the pick...no matter who else is available.  He perfectly fits what we want to do on offense (size, speed, power, vision combo), and without the injury, would be a guy that we could only fantasize about, but have no chance to land.  And all indications are that he will be fine this year, but exceptional next season. 


I think ideally, they want to move on from Stewart after this year, but without having his replacement waiting in the wings, would be hesitant.  And to be honest, I don't know that they truly want to run a RB by committee that many think.  They inherited a RBBC that they couldn't afford to break up from the last regime, but I get the feeling they would like a true bell cow back.  Now, I also believe they want to keep other backs involved, but I think they do want a true lead back.

#3249854 Cam Newton should be paid more than Luck or Wilson

Posted by Woodie on 22 February 2015 - 03:28 PM

I think you have to consider contract longevity too. Newtons rush number should decrease the older he gets so that favors Luck.


I also think the NFL in general views Luck the better QB, I mean he did get drafted #1 overall  in the pro bowl twice in a row now, LOL.


I want to see Cam surrounded by legit weapons and right now we are clearly rebuilding. Luck had Hilton, Fleener and Allen drafted with him as a rookie to add to Reggie Wayne, then they added Moncrief and signed the guy almost everyone here was wetting themselves to get, Nicks. So far we've only added Benji thru the draft that has stuck. We have to start adding speedy playmakers, hopefully, this is the year. I'm glad it was one of the first comments made this offseason by Gettleman.


I agree to an extent.  Cam actually does a very good job of minimizing many of the hits he takes.  He does take the occasional big hit, but more often than not it's either glancing, or Cam drops before the big hit comes.  But you are right that regardless he will eventually have to run less.  However, I think we have seen him improve every year, and at the start of this year, he showed a much higher level of maturity as a passer until things went downhill for the entire team. 


And adding weapons is unquestionably vital to Cam ever becoming what he can be.  Right now (and even previously when Smitty was still here) we had limited weapons and inefficient protection, so Cam has never truly been able to be let loose.  Bring in playmakers and speed on the outside along with some real protection, and I have a feeling that Cam will become one of the most feared QB's in the league. 


So a lot depends on what the team puts around Cam.  Fortunately, I believe in Gettleman's ability to eventually find the right pieces.  So I think when all is said and done, Cam and Luck will be the Manning/Brady of their generation.  You wouldn't go wrong with either of them.

#3241768 Has Voth changed his opinion of Hardy's future?

Posted by Woodie on 14 February 2015 - 03:07 AM

I think most of us know what Zod is saying, we just don't agree.

It isn't just us, there are some in the media saying it is extremely unlikely and others that it is inevitable.

There are a lot of factors at play here that do not have a precedent.

I have said that the Peterson case that is in the court system will tell a lot, and even then I think if Hardy gets suspended his appeal will end up in a court room as well.

There are a lot of factors that have not been challenged yet, and they will be.

Plus the NFL has to find a reason to suspend him. If it was truly as simple as saying "conduct policy" they would have done it already and wouldn't need 1st trial evidence.

You may think he wasn't suspended already because he was paid. A judge might disagree (could happen)

I worry about the precedent of players being blackmailed or accused of things by girlfriends trying to punish them by ruining their careers.

Having an allegation come out against you that is a misdemeanor charge shouldn't cost someone 22 games. That is absurd. Even if he was paid.

We will see


I don't think the Peterson case will have much, if any, bearing on Hardy's situation.  They are two completely different issues with very little in common except the fact both players were on the commissioners list and are facing possible suspension.  But the cases are really apples to oranges.


And the NFL already has reason to suspend him.  Hardy's associates and their activities, along with the context of the situation gives them enough reason to suspend if they really want to.  And that doesn't even take into account the fact that he was not cleared of anything, he only had the charges dropped (two completely different things).  I think many are focusing too much on the legal standards for this, but the NFL does not have to follow the legal standards.  They do not have to show proof of guilt in order to suspend him.  Nor do they have to have any sort of conviction.  All they need is something that tarnishes the image of the league in their eyes, and they already have that.


Also, a judge won't rule that his time on the commissioners list was a suspension.  And it's not just that he was paid, but that he chose to go on the commissioners list.  Nobody forced him to do it.  Sure, he was stuck between a rock and a hard place, but he still had a choice...with a suspension, there is no choice.  Regardless, the only thing he lost was the ability to play, he didn't lose any of his livelihood.  The courts aren't interested in whether or not he wanted to play, their concern is with whether or not his ability to make a living was hampered, and it wasn't.  And anything afterward is speculative. 


Also, the NFL always said it would wait until his court case was resolved before making any kind of decision.  And now that it is, they are gathering as much information as possible before making a decision on a suspension.  There is no reason for them to rush into it before they get all the facts.  And for the record, I don't think it is decided that he will be suspended.  I think the NFL is truly trying to see what happened before deciding. 


The one thing I guarantee is that it will be a political decision.  If they find that he really didn't do anything overly wrong, I don't think they will suspend him.  But if they don't, they are going to want to have enough info to justify to the media why he wasn't suspended.  But if there's any question, I think they will suspend him (or sacrifice him might be a better way to put it).  But the length would depend on how guilty they think he is.  If they think it was overblown, but there is some smoke there, he might get a game or two, just so they won't look weak.  However, if they think he is truly guilty, then I could see a more lengthy suspension.

I do agree that there are a lot of factors involved, and that this is pretty unprecedented.  But the way the NFL has botched this whole issue could work against Hardy.  I could easily see them scapegoating him to show the world that they really are tough on DV.


For the record, although I said the NFL already has reason to suspend him, I do not think they will be the reasons he is suspended.  I believe those cards would only be played if they feel they have to suspend him to save face, but may not have enough on the merits of the case itself.  In that case, I could see them using them as leverage to help justify a suspension.

#3241707 Cam and Kap modeling bell peppers...

Posted by Woodie on 14 February 2015 - 01:15 AM

How is Kaepernick a thug?


I think thug nowadays, or at least in the huddle, is someone with a more urban style rather than a criminal waiting to mug you for your $10 watch.  At least I hope so.  


It's still intended as an insult, but really a pretty silly one. 

#3241700 Has Voth changed his opinion of Hardy's future?

Posted by Woodie on 14 February 2015 - 01:06 AM

There is a lot of hearing what you want to hear going on in this thread.  I don't think many arguing really understand what Jeremy is saying.  He's not saying what is right or wrong, or what should happen, or even what his personal opinion is.  He's simply saying that based on the way the winds are blowing in the NFL what you can expect. 


Most of you are arguing your beliefs of what is right and what should happen.  The problem is that despite many on here wanting to believe that the NFL won't suspend Hardy, or that if they do are fairly certain it won't be for six games are using only their own rationale and personal judgment to make that claim.  Unfortunately, the NFL does not have the same burden of proof as the courts.  And the players union made a major blunder by giving Goodell the authority to hand out punishments as he sees fit.  That's why it's rare for the courts to side with a player in a court battle. 


Here is what we know:


1) Hardy was accused of a reprehensible crime.  Yes it was a misdemeanor, but that doesn't minimize its impact.  Just the accusation alone gave the league and team a black eye...at least in their eyes.


2) Even though his conviction was set aside due to the laws in NC when appealing, GH was convicted at one point...and setting aside the conviction is a legal standard, not a NFL standard.  In their eyes, he was convicted, and then the case was dropped.  Not because the DA came to the conclusion it was an unwarranted accusation, but because their star witness disappeared...and they have strongly stated it's because they believe she made a deal with Hardy.  Hardy was never exonerated in this case, it was just dropped.  If he was innocent, it was never proven in a court of law, so in the leagues eyes, he is stuck with the stigma of the uncertainty of his guilt.  Which is to say they still feel they have a black eye.


3) Regardless of his guilt or innocence, it is unquestioned that he put himself in a bad situation that has ultimately made the league look bad.  He knowingly associated with people who were doing drugs and the time of the incident is also a negative to the NFL.


4) And despite what some want to think, in the eyes of the law, the commissioners list is not a suspension.  He was paid, and made the choice to go on the list rather than let things play out.  I think many have missed the point that he was not just put on the list, but agreed to it rather than take a chance on being suspended if things didn't go his way.  Some may see it as being strong armed, but the law sees it as his decision, not something forced on him...although the league will be the ones to decide if and when he can come off the list. 


5)  What this boils down to for the NFL is perception, not guilt or innocence.  To them, he made the league look bad, and nothing has happened to lessen that feeling.  Ideally, Holder would have shown up at court, and he would have been found not guilty.  That would have given the league an out.  But as it stands, they are still trying to manage the image, and do not want to come across as soft on DV. 


The problem with all these arguments people are making is that you cannot apply your own logic and sense of fairness to this situation.  The NFL has so mismanaged the entire DV situation that they would rather be seen as coming down too hard rather than that they don't take it seriously enough.


And truth is that because of the crappy CBA the players agreed to, the NFL really does have the authority to suspend players for anything they deem harmful to the image of the league.  A conviction is not necessary.  In order to overturn a suspension, the player would have to prove some sort of impropriety by the league, which is very difficult.  They might find a loophole, but the NFL does a good job of closing those up pretty quickly.  And the courts are not going to overturn an NFL decision based on what is fair, but on specific facts...mostly ones that would show that the NFL made a decision that fell out of the realm of the CBA.

#3224586 How high are we on Philly Brown

Posted by Woodie on 31 January 2015 - 01:48 AM

I don't think we're anywhere near as high on him as some fans think.  At best, he may be a decent #3 or 4 receiver.  He has speed, but he's not really explosive, nor does he make people miss...he also is not all that strong, even by receiver standards.  And I have yet to see him create much separation.  Really, his biggest asset is his straight line speed.  The only reason he was used so much this year is because he was the only guy we had that had any kind of speed.  But I fully expect that we bring in a receiver this year that has true speed plus explosion.  And that will essentially relegate Philly to Bersin's role.


Don't get me wrong, I like Philly, but as depth, not a core guy.  IMO, the only reason he seemed so eye catching is because all we had to compare him to was sluggish guys like Cotchery and Avant, who were never speed demons, even at their best.  This year both Rivera and Gettleman both have emphasized that we will be looking for speed.  And I think receiver is one spot that is clearly on their hit list...and probably within the first couple of rounds of the draft...and that will not be good for Philly. 

#3197998 So Cotchery is signed to a 5yr deal?

Posted by Woodie on 11 January 2015 - 03:58 PM

Cotchery is a very good number 3 receiver that was forced to play the #2 role in an offense without a legitimate deep threat.  IMO, he is similar to LaFell who was playing a spot that was not ideal to what he does best.  He's not a guy that you look for to be a playmaker, but someone that can move the chains as a 3rd option.  Put a legitimate #2 beside KB and you'll understand Cotchery's value.  Someone mentioned Proehl earlier, and I think that is a good comparison.  If you had put Proehl in as Muhammad's number 2 without Smitty, you would have seen similar production as we saw from Cotchery.  Both guys rely on savvy and understanding the nuances of the position to succeed.  Neither was particularly fast or athletic, but both knew how to get the job done.  The big difference with us is that we had no Smitty (please do not dredge up that argument again) to open up the defense and give Cotchery a gap to sit in and be a safety net.


As for that early "drop" he had, I actually put that more on Cam than Cotchery.  You don't throw a five yard laser at a guys head without there being a high chance of it being incomplete.  IMO, that's one of Cams biggest areas he needs to improve on.  He doesn't usually have good touch on his passes, particularly the shorter ones.  He tends to throw a lot of darts that makes it hard for the receiver to catch.   

#3177737 Question about Kugzilla and Amini

Posted by Woodie on 04 January 2015 - 03:19 PM

They both will compete for a backup spot next year.  People here have been way too unfair to Amini this year.  Basing opinion on how he has played this season is not a good baseline to use.  I think most forget that he was coming off an ACL, and, IMO, probably should have started the year on the PUP.  I don't believe he was ever physically ready to compete on the field.  But he was getting it before his injury last year, so give him time to fully recover, and I think he'll be ok.  Although, he won't get his starting spot back because Norwell and Turner have positioned themselves to be our future at G, Amini can provide good depth if he is healthy.


On the other hand, we don't know enough about Kugbila to really know what he can be.  He hasn't really played, so none of us has seen enough to form any kind of intelligent opinion on his ability...and basing it on the fact he came from a small school is small minded.  My biggest issue with him is that he hasn't shown he can stay healthy, and if he can't even make it to preseason, then he may never be someone we can count on.  But there is no reason not to give him a chance to earn a backup role in camp.  If he gets hurt again, then no loss, but if he can stay healthy for the first time, we can actually get a chance to see what we have in him.  Basically, he's a low risk guy that's worth taking a flier on for one more year.

#3161145 What would Kelvin's stats look like mnus the drops?

Posted by Woodie on 29 December 2014 - 01:49 AM

I think he's lost some confidence in his hands.  But the fact that he makes the difficult catches, but drops the easy ones tells me it's more of a confidence and technical issue (ex. catch the ball before looking upfield).  So, I think this will be something he can and will address this offseason.  Right now, he's probably overthinking it, and isn't just reacting to the ball.