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Member Since 24 Nov 2008
Offline Last Active Nov 22 2014 12:42 AM

#3087029 Did Cam call players meeting?

Posted by panthers55 on 14 November 2014 - 06:23 PM

If the offensive line had gone after Cam and told him everything they were sorry for the meeting would have gone well into Tuesday and they would have ordered in breakfast.

#3086336 Steve Logan absolutely nails it about Cam Newton and Panthers

Posted by panthers55 on 14 November 2014 - 09:31 AM

There is a reason he never got another head coaching job. He had a bit of a reputation of being a bit arrogant and hard to deal with, although he seemingly has mellowed out as he has gotten older.

But I would take him as a QB coach in a millisecond. And he said at the end of that interview "I would give anything to have coached that kid"

But i doubt that ever comes to fruition.

Before they hired Chud I started a thread suggesting we should look at Logan.  On the other hand if we are going to part ways with Shula I really want a proven guy at the NFL level or at least one with successful NFL experience.  For every college guy who comes in and succeeds there are many more who fail.

#3086306 How We Got Here - A 2014 Timeline

Posted by panthers55 on 14 November 2014 - 09:07 AM

Exactly the reason I blame Gettleman not so much for the situation we were in at the time but how he mishandled it. BUT I also understand that this is his first job as GM and guys make mistakes they hopefully learn from.  Hopefully he will too.  The problem with bringing in folks who have not been experienced in their job is that you have to live with the growing pains.  2014 is Gettleman's.

#3086291 Steve Logan absolutely nails it about Cam Newton and Panthers

Posted by panthers55 on 14 November 2014 - 08:35 AM

IMO Steve Logan got a bad deal from ECU.  He took ECU to a level that no one ever knew before.  I think he had a bad season or two but for what he did for ECU was nothing more than a miracle.   He made them relevant and could have gone elsewhere after a good season but stayed for 10 yrs.


Greatest Coach in ECU history.  Yeah I know Pat Dye was there but wasn't there as long.

Here is a good discussion about why Logan and ECU parted ways.





FWIW I was at the Peach Bowl when Logan and the Pirates made their then historic comeback against the wolfpack in 1992.  I beleive.........

#3086287 This year's vs. last years FAs

Posted by panthers55 on 14 November 2014 - 08:26 AM

I dunno--it is hard to put your finger on it.  Early 30s is not that old if the football acumen surpasses the loss of a step.  However, DeCoud was a free agent signing we all liked--made a pro bowl.  Cotchery has averaged about what Lafell averaged here.  Harper?  That was a strange acquisition considering his history with the team and his one-dimensional talent.


To me, DeCoud has been a bigger disappointment than Harper.  You never hear his name.  He tried to avoid tackles and when he makes one, he acts as though he just won an oscar.


Cotchery has value, but not as a #2.  He needs time to find the seams as the checkdown WR.


These players lack chemistry, but we are mistaken if we forget that Mitchell had his fair share of screw ups last year.  Our secondary was not much better in 2013.  The difference on both sides of the ball is probably not the skill players, but the lines in front of them.


I am not going to be like some on here and blame Gettlemen.  Hurney's contracts in 2011 and 2012 are just now starting to come off the books.  We have a ton of dead money.  Everyone wants to know why Hurney did not address the OL or get better defensive backs.  Duh. 


This is the first offseason to judge Gettlemen.  Even then, we are still fighting more of Hurney's dead money and keeping players we can't restructure or cut because the deal Hurney signed was so bad for the team.  I hate to see fans bash Gettlemen because he did not sign the pro bowl roster in the offseason or because he is not kissing Cam's ass.  It is not his job, and if you see the same numbers I see, nobody should be kissing his ass.  There may be excuses--and legit ones at that---but the mess Hurney has us in has made it difficult to surround Cam with talent.  Ultimately, we don't know how good he is on a consistent level. 

When I have criticized what Gettleman I do so because I really think that he thought after the success he had in 2013 that he could do the same thing in 2014 and just replace all the guys who wanted more money with cheaper guys  and have success.  He went after a few guys like Nicks and the OL guy who went to Tampa for whatever reason and then he had to scramble to put together a lineup. I read that he didn't even try and sign some of the guys we lost to free agency. So I understand that it wasn't his fault we had no money but how he handled the off-season to how he let Smitty go were functions of his own hubris so I think he deserves criticism for his strategy and how he went about making his changes.  Lets face it if he hadn't done what he did to Gross with the contract for example in 2013 he would probably still be here.  Playing hardball can work at times but other times can blow up in your face.  In 2013 it worked but in 2014 it surely didn't.

#3084919 And now, it gets interesting...

Posted by panthers55 on 12 November 2014 - 11:43 PM

I know he doesn't have an injury that is going to keep him out of the game. Doesn't change the fact he is more hurt than your average player. Just watch him play. Look at his body language. Look how he gets out of the huddle and walks off the field. Dude is hurt and not just a couple of nicks and bruises. Not to mention I never said he shouldn't play, so I don't know what your point is about him sitting out and stuff. Not saying he should or he shouldn't. But to say "every player plays hurt" as if your average player is going through the pain Newton is going through is ridiculous. He's going half-speed right now. He's not the Cam from 2011-2013. Mark Sanchez looked more mobile than him.

Cam's a tough dude and I don't think he is going to sit out unless the injury is too serious. But his level of play is clearly being effected.

This is the problem with you apologists. How do you know he his hurt more than the average player or exactly how hurt the average player is at this point. You pull things out,of your butt based on an observation you made and act as if you have talked with Cam or have some special understanding the rest of us don't. Plus you are so tied up in your own replies you don't read what I am saying. Did I not say that pain is subjective and not everyone feels it the same way. Did I not say that pain was often do to your situation and whether for example you are winning or losing. So I have no idea what the average player feels nor do you. As for why is he going half speed, I don't know and neither do you. I just don't try and make excuses. Honestly I would like to see Webb or Anderson given I am not convinced that Cam is necessarily the best option right now and I don' t want to damage him further. But like I said football is a macho sport and pain is a given you play through if you want to a respected leader. Cam knows that.

#3084908 And now, it gets interesting...

Posted by panthers55 on 12 November 2014 - 11:21 PM

I hate how a lot of people keep saying "everyone plays hurt in the NFL."

Cam Newton is hurt more than your average player. He's going through a lot more pain than your average player. Just because everyone technically goes through nicks and bruises throughout the season does NOT put them on the same level of Newton as far as health goes. And compared to every other QB in the league with the exception of maybe Tony Romo, no QB is coming close to playing with as much pain as Newton appears to be going through. He can't even step into his throws anymore.

First of all he admitted he had no injury that would keep him out of a game so he isn't that hurt. Secondly if you played football you would know that few sports are as macho as football. Guys who don't play through pain are seen as soft and never are seen as a leader. It isn't just playing hurt but he is playing for the team's respect as a leader. He has often been seen as getting special treatment like his own weight room for example so if he bails now he will be seen as giving up. Honestly I wish we would sit him but understand that he is playing in a macho environment where you do play through injuries.
As for how hurt he is, it is hard to say more or less than average given that pain is actual subjective and affected by many factors.

#3084813 Your the GM, how do you fix this train wreck?

Posted by panthers55 on 12 November 2014 - 09:46 PM

In order to stop the wreck I need to look at what resources I have available.

If we assume the cap goes to 140m our cap space for 2015 is 13m. This is only for 41 players though. Also we have about 5m we can rollover. I have to set aside about 4m for practice squad and IR. Adding all of this up gives us about 14m to fill 12 roster spots.

Needless to say 14m for 12 spots isn't really going to give us the kind of upgrades all of us are wanting, so now I have to look at what players we can cut to free up cap space.

If we designate CJ a June 1 cut we can save 10m.
If we designate TD a June 1 cut we can save 7.5m.
If we designate Kalil a June 1 cut we can save 5.6m
If we designate Olsen a June 1 cut we can save 5.5m.
If we designate DWill a June 1 cut we can save 2m.
If we designate Stew a June 1 cut we can save 2m.

From what I understand you can only designate 2 players as June 1st cuts.

So if we cut CJ and Dwill we will now have 26m and 14 empty roster spots.

Still not a tremendous about of money so lets see who else we can cut. Remember that cutting a player making 800k doesn't really save you that much because you have to replace him with someone and at the very least that person will be making around 500k so you really don't save much.

We could cut Tolbert and Decoud and save 2.4m and 1.9m respectively.

Now we have 30.3m and 16 empty roster spots.

If we keep all of our draft picks for next year that will give us 7 players at a cost of around 6m if we draft around the 10th spot.

If they all make the team that means we have 24.3m to fill 9 spots.

I almost forgot I need to cut Harper so the Huddle is happy. That frees up 600k. So now we have 24.9m for 10 spots. We can just call it 25m

Looking at our free agents both Bersin and Fozzy are ERFA so I know I can resign them really cheap (around 500k each). At worst they can be quality backups. That leaves us with 24m for 8 spots.

Now I have to look at the players we are losing and also positions I want to upgrade.

Here are some of the players we are losing:
Starting DE - CJ - if we cut him
Starting DE - Hardy - would have been the starter and I don't think we are sold on his replacements yet.
Starting Safety - Harper - if we cut him
Starting Safety - DeCoud - if we cut him
Starting Corner - Cason - ufa
Starting LT - Bell - ufa
Backup DT - Cole - ufa
Backup DT - Edwards - ufa
Backup TE - Dickson - ufa

I would also love to find a PR and/or a deep threat speed receiver.

The position that I feel like is the hardest to find in the draft or cheaply in FA is LT so I would spend money there. We might be able to find a proven player for around 8m.

At this point I am down to 16m and 7 empty roster spots. With needs at both DE spots, both safety spots, and corner I think it is pretty safe to say we are going to have to look for cheap free agents and hope to draft well.

If the cap doesn't go up we would have 9m for 7 empty roster spots. And people wonder why we didn't resign some of the people we lost last year.

As far as the coaches go it sure seems like there is some change that needs to happen. Personally I would go with an offensive minded coach with a proven record of developing quarterbacks.

At some point this franchise has to decide if they are going to heavily invest in Cam. A new coach and improved line might give us a better idea if Cam is going to be worth the 20m he is going to expect. I hope he is.

Whatever we decide with Cam could potentially shape this franchise for the next 10 years.

You mentioned we would have 13 million in cap space with a 140 cap but it depends on which site you use. Spottrac says our cap for 2015 is 122 which would give us 18 not 13. If you roll over the 6 million we have left over now you are at 24 million.
If we cut Williams and CJ we save 12 million which now gives up 36 million to spend assuming we restructure no one else and have no more dead money. By the way you can designate 2 June 1 cuts before June 1 but after June 1 you can cut as many as you want.
I don't disagree on some of the moves but would note that when you say 8 million for a tackle it depends on how we structure it. If we actually signed a guy long term you can have a very low cap hit in year one so his contract can average 8 million but the cap can be as little as 4 million in year 1 meaning we could have money to sign others. Plus we are going to cut guys like Cotchery and DeCoud which will save us more. So honestly while I applaud the hard work and effort in your post the actual numbers seem to vary and we might have quite a bit of flexibility if we sign Cam long term and his cap goes from 14 million to around 8 for example.

#3084776 Breaking down that 4th & 1 play..

Posted by panthers55 on 12 November 2014 - 09:14 PM

What I see is 2 underneath routes that were open and if Cam had rolled out the linebacker would have had to pressure Cam and he throws it to a wide open running back or the linebacker stays witht e running back who blocks him and Cam makes it with no problem.. Instead he throws is poorly to a double covered receiver. And somehow that was Shula's fault? You,guys are hopeless.

#3084730 The Panthers are a fail of a franchise, You DONT DO THIS TO YOUR FRANCHISE QB

Posted by panthers55 on 12 November 2014 - 08:28 PM

According to spotrac.com the Panthers currently are 6,333,219 under the cap for 2014. We don't carry that to next season, that's just gone after this year. You don't think there was any way to spend 6.3 million dollars to make the team better? There are no more free agents willing to be paid 6 million for 1 year to improve our o-line?

In week 10 you don't pick up free agents in football shape who can come in and know the playbook. If they are still out there then there is an issue already. As Fox used to say to the players, no one is coming in to rescue us. It is up to you guys to step up or we go down together.

#3084726 The Panthers are a fail of a franchise, You DONT DO THIS TO YOUR FRANCHISE QB

Posted by panthers55 on 12 November 2014 - 08:24 PM

They don't think they have a "franchise QB," and Gettleman never has, hence, throw Cam out there behind crap. If he gets mutilated, so be it.

"Who cares?"

Your boy,
Dave G.

Again your logic is stupid. If you don't want him you make him look good and trade him. Getting him hurt wouldnt even cross his mind. His reputation is tied to Newton and winning. Some of you guys are such Cam nuhuggers you have lost your mind.

#3084559 Ryan Kalil's cap figure next year is 11+m

Posted by panthers55 on 12 November 2014 - 06:16 PM

So our perennial all pro is making what the average center makes within a mil or two.


Wow.  Big news worthy of a thread of its' own.

#3084551 Your the GM, how do you fix this train wreck?

Posted by panthers55 on 12 November 2014 - 06:12 PM

Al I can say Is I am glad none of you are the GM.  What bonehead ideas some of those suggestions are.  You know who you are.


What bonehead things would I do.  I would go back to 2013 as a blueprint.  I would sign Hardy long term with clauses for playing time and good behavior and not going off the deep end.  I would bring in a shut down corner and a dominant safety who can play run and pass.  And i would sign some receivers and fixin the O line would be my first second and third priority.  I would find a good return/ receiver like Justin Hardy.


Truth is I would have a winning record with the same coaches as this year.  


If I could find a great OC that actually wanted to be here I would be playoff bound.

#3084535 I Remember JR running a tight lip franchise

Posted by panthers55 on 12 November 2014 - 06:00 PM

Fox and Hurney didn't say anything.  Rivera and Gettleman talk more.  What is best?  When they don't say anything they are accused of being stoic and uncaring.  When they do they are accused on being overbearing and throwing folks under the bus.  You can't have it both ways people.


I agree with the moderation comments.

#3084531 The Panthers are a fail of a franchise, You DONT DO THIS TO YOUR FRANCHISE QB

Posted by panthers55 on 12 November 2014 - 05:56 PM

This conspiracy theory is beyond ignorant it is almost delusional.  Beside the cap issues and losing all our free agents, it would make no sense for the GM to submerine a season and the franchise quarterback to make him look bad or save money on new contract.  If anything you would want to see him do great so if you didn't want him you could trade him for a boatload of picks.  Who is going to give 2 1s for Cam today.  Not nearly as many folks as most of you think.

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