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#2371262 Should Ron Rivera be standing up for Cam?

Posted by teeray on 11 September 2013 - 10:30 PM

Even if I were to accept the premise that Rivera is not defending Cam enough (which I don't)

If Cam truly is fueled by the criticism why try to cut off that fuel supply?

Cam for all things is surely confident in his abilities. In some ways I think the criticism is good because it fuels desire and gives him humility and determination.

For example Michael Jordan was a guy that would just manufacture slights against him to fuel his insatiable competitive appetite. It gave him an edge

Rivera doesn't need to run out and defend Cam of every criticism against him. He needs Cam to come out every day with a burning desire to prove his critics wrong on the field.

#2371238 The Pyramid Builders

Posted by teeray on 11 September 2013 - 10:12 PM

I have read this whole thread and have no idea what any of you are talking about.

Just wanted to say, Helloworld stop visiting white nationalist websites! No wonder you have some pent up anger :lol: . I get pissed off at that stuff and I am white.

I don't know how it is even useful except to explore the most radical minority of white people who perpetuate hate to try to lift their own low self esteem and feelings of inadequacy.

#2371208 Hornets Logo/Color Rumors

Posted by teeray on 11 September 2013 - 09:42 PM

I am just happy the name is back. If we get the purple and teal it will be icing on the cake

#2370576 panthers press conference tweets

Posted by teeray on 11 September 2013 - 02:23 PM

I wish we were deeper at RB

#2370352 Ranking the Young QB's According to ESPN

Posted by teeray on 11 September 2013 - 12:33 PM

Even if I take Newton out of the equation. I will take Wilson and Kaep over Luck any and every day. I would also take a healthy RG3 over him.

Although the Colts have changed their offense to better suit Luck. So I think Luck will have a good year. Better than last.

#2370022 Fua has been resigned!

Posted by teeray on 11 September 2013 - 09:27 AM

Pretty smart. Our O-Line needs a good confidence boost in practice. If there is one thing Fua is good at , its making the OL look great.



#2369796 According to FootballOutsiders, Panthers Offense 9th Best in Week 1

Posted by teeray on 11 September 2013 - 06:40 AM

have i landed in some magical fairy turd land where points and winning don't matter?

we only scored seven and we lost. yay. everything is awesome.

No one is saying everything was awesome. Just that the offense in the general sense performed in a way that was to be expected considering the circumstances of the game.

We were not going to have very many scoring opportunities on average.

The thing I think everyone agrees on is we did not take advantage of the opportunities we did have and it resulted in only 7 points.

The point I have been trying to make is that I am not as discouraged about our offense after further analysis because eventually the offense will progress back to the mean. In other words we won't always have crucial drops and fumbles, and so those possessions will result in points in the future if we keep doing what we are doing as things statistically even out, so to speak.

To put it another way, scoring only 7 points was likely due more to variance than offensive ineptitude.

#2369761 According to FootballOutsiders, Panthers Offense 9th Best in Week 1

Posted by teeray on 11 September 2013 - 05:00 AM

Not surprised.  Especially about our offense.


I really am not after breaking down some of the game stats myself.


You guys should listen to poppa teeray  :cool:

#2369645 If you are interested, more statistical evidence that offense actually wasn...

Posted by teeray on 10 September 2013 - 10:14 PM

I've searched and searched to try and find a fault with this offense. I'm sorry there just isn't any. 7 points is the best any team could have done. I'm tickled and proud of our organization. WE lost but what the hell that's nothing new. Shula and huddle homers will explain to us ignorant fans winning is not important. So don't try to pretend you know more than the coaches. I hate wining.


That would be clever if that is what anyone said or even inferred.


Good effort though

#2369609 If you are interested, more statistical evidence that offense actually wasn...

Posted by teeray on 10 September 2013 - 09:36 PM

I feel like all of these analyses are forgetting tempo. Our offense was deliberately running as few drives as possible by soaking up as much clock as possible. that's fine, but that's a particular playstyle that will mean fewer drives, and thus we will need to maximize our opportunities.

either way, we didn't get it done, 7 points isn't going to cut it, and while our average yards per drive may be fine, I think the fear that this is just Shula-as-we-know-him is justified. I don't think we should kick him to the curb but I also think it makes sense we'd be concerned at this point. We'll see how he adjusts.

Seattle played at a pretty deliberate pace as well and you are right that when you do that you have to maximize opportunities and we didn't. So I agree with you on that.

What I found surprising though is that we outperformed our offense from last years game against Seattle in every way, and more surprisingly, outperformed our drive metrics for all of last season per average.  I did not expect to see that.

We were handicapped with terrible field position and had two crucial fumbles. In a game like that those are the difference between winning and losing, and the difference between 7 and 14-17 points.

So the play calling to me wasn't the issue. It was circumstances of the type of game it was.  After looking at this game in deeper context I feel better about our offense than I did right after the game.

#2369593 If you are interested, more statistical evidence that offense actually wasn...

Posted by teeray on 10 September 2013 - 09:19 PM

I think quite a few people are completely misinterpreting Teeray's data.

Field Position is a big deal, it is hard to drive 80 yards and get TDs in the NFL.


Let me pull a few NFL gamebooks from this weekend from high scoring games:


Chip Kelly's blur offense drove 80 yards and got a TD how many times......NOT ONCE!!!!

3 of their TDs they started on Redskins side. (out of 4 possesions in WAS territory)

When the Eagles started at their 20 or worse (19), their drives ended: Fumble, FG, Punt, Fumble, Punt.


Washington didn't get better field position than their 20 until the end of the 3rd qtr. Their drives (20 or worse) ended with Fumble, INT, safety, Punt, Punt, Punt, INT, Downs, TD (yes the garbage time TD).


From the 20 or worse:

Patriots: Punt, punt, Fumble, Punt, FG, Punt

Bills: Fumble, punt, punt, punt, fumble, punt, TD, punt, punt, punt

Packers: Punt, punt, TD, Fumble, punt, INT, punt, punt

SanFran (this is impressive or GB def really sucks or both): TD, TD, FG, punt, TD

oddity: SF actually did worse with better field position: Punt, punt, TD, punt, missed FG, punt, FG


Houston: only 3 drives all game from their 20 or worse. They scored ZERO points. 1 INT, 1 Downs.

SD: 7 drives: 2TDs, 4 punts, 1 INTs.


I need to get back to work, but only 2 of 8 teams listed here in high scoring games drove and got points (TD or FG) more than once if they had to go 80 yards. Fox ball wasn't a stupid concept. Make teams drive 80 yards for TDs. I'll pull the Denver game later.....



Ravens: punt, TD, punt, INT, punt, punt, FG, punt(blocked), punt, punt, punt, punt, INT, TD, punt.

Broncos: punt, TD, TD, punt TD

Note: Broncos had 14 drives (not including end of half/game) and only 5 from their 20 or worse. Compare to the Ravens two drives from their 20 or better.


Good post.  Part of what I was talking about too.  Denver had 14 possessions not counting end of halves.


We had 7.


So if we had 14 possessions and scored 14 points we didn't play any better we just had more attempts.


Mav brought up a good point earlier though, the low possessions had to do with pace of play.  That is absolutely true on our part and the Hawks.  We were both taking our time between plays.  But still, we only had 7 possessions.  When your average starting field is 20.17 yard line, you are not going ot score very many points or even have many opportunities to score points.  Especially against a defense as well coached as Seattle's

#2369284 On Cam's near interception

Posted by teeray on 10 September 2013 - 04:35 PM

Here is a capture from the pass to Smith that was nearly intercepted.




Things I notice ...


3 defenders on the right with 2 options. 2 defenders on the left with 2 receivers.


A) Smitty is not open. He is covered up pretty well by the DB. The underneath taken away by the linebacker.


B ) Ginn, hidden behind fox logo, is open and looking for the ball. He ran a great route and got the needed separation.


C) Lafell apparently is neither open nor looking for the ball.


D) Pretty decent pass protection, except for Bell.



Watching the play, Cam never takes his eyes off Smith, sadly.


Also not pictured is there is another safety just off to the left of Ginn Jr.  He is just off screen.


Ginn was running a deep hitch it looked like.  He did have a little separation though.


The other thing Zod didn't tell you is that Sherman had slipped on the play and looked like he was beat, plus Smitty drifted up field before the ball arrived.


That is why snapshots aren't always good barometers on these things although it is admittedly fun

#2369056 shula responds to criticism

Posted by teeray on 10 September 2013 - 02:28 PM

I know we did not score points, but your defense is stuffing them and you're averaging 5 yards a carry on the ground.  Shula did what he should have done.  Olsen dropped 2 passes, DWIll's fumble. Cam not seeing open WRs down field, Lafell's invisibility--- etc.  That is why the team did not score.


All that in only 7 possessions with no field position.


If we had 12 possessions we may have score 14-17 points but it wouldn't mean we played any better/worse

#2369042 shula responds to criticism

Posted by teeray on 10 September 2013 - 02:26 PM

Shula stole all my lines  ;)


Oh and he is spot on too.  After studying the game further I am very comfortable with what we did Sunday despite the 7 points.


I feel good.  I hope they tweak some stuff, but I am encouraged.

#2368881 If you are interested, more statistical evidence that offense actually wasn...

Posted by teeray on 10 September 2013 - 01:31 PM

the problem is nobody can reconcile being a good offense with only seven points put on the scoreboard. that's because few people stop to consider the difference between performance - as it pertains to ability - and efficiency. in terms of raw ability to move the ball it looks like we performed great, as highlighted by OP. we were, however, terribly inefficient by turning the ball over or choking just shy of scoring range.


therefore: if you believe that guys will always drop balls in critical moments or fumble in the red zone all but one time during every game, then yes, hysteria is justified. if you think these things will be fixed, then, well, you can assume this offense will pay dividends.


time will tell


This is probably putting it in better terms.


Things even themselves out over the course of the season, so failed opportunities in one game, does not mean every opportunity you will fail.


Olsen had some drops and D-Will had a fumble.  That cost us in scoring opportunities.  But in the future when they make those catches or don't fumble it will result in points.


We didn't have very many possessions, so in a low possession, low snap game, these issues are magnified.

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