The black quaterback

[KillerKat]

The best player plays. Period. It has nothing to do with race. Where's the race card for so many blacks playing RB, WR, CB, etc? Like someone said earlier, most of the league is black. Why is there no race card for white people to use in this situation? Sometimes I feel that black people wont be satisfied till the league is 100% black. Get real. If you're gonna play the race card since there is more white QBs than black, be fair and recognized that the league is mostly black.

[AKPantherFan]

Here is some "black history" for you guys.

The 1st Black Coach was in the league in 1921- He was a player 1st and then went on to coach.

He was Fritz Pollard of the Akron Pros...

[Slithis]

The more you scream for equality, the more people treat you differently. I hear blacks (some friends of mine) talk about how the man is keeping them down. The evidence they give me suggests that the man is keeping me down too, and I am white. I know many blacks who are embarrassed by those always forcing an issue. THey tell me, "They (blacks screaming discrimination) don't care how hard you had to work to get where you are, they just expect the same opportunity." They know that if racism is screamed loud enough, they will eventually get their way and justice (to them) will be served-I would not want a job they gave me for my skin color. My black friends, whom I respect, would not either. One friend said to me, "Don't assume all blacks share the same opinion. They (a radical group we were watching on the news) don't speak for me."

Our country is past it for the most part. A black may face discrimination in 5 out of 100 occurances, but so do I. So the whining has to stop--if you want to be treated as an equal, shut up long enough to realize that you are. And with equality comes eqaul treatment, so don't ask for special treatment if you are less qualified. That is charity, not equality.

[hdevonxz]

What the hell is everyone talking about?


I'm pretty sure the original issue and the main issue has nothing to do with people saying a person should be given a position based on color.

The issue mainly as I see is, is black QBs getting treated just a little bit different. And it's simply true.

A black QB will most likely be changed into a different postion like WR or return man cause he is very athletic and fast. He can probably still throw well, but thats how some coaches see it.

And this starts much earlier than the Pros. It happens in high school, and in college. Many recruits get position swapped.

It also doesn't help with scrambling QBs being stereotyped as bad passers.

And no, the best player doesn't always play. Taveras Jackson is better than Gus Ferrotte, but he gets shafted cause his team is not winning.

[dimbee]

Originally Posted by hdevonxz

Taveras Jackson is better than Gus Ferrotte, but he gets shafted cause his team is not winning.

Tavaris is a better athlete, but I don't think he's a better quarterback, yet

[hdevonxz]

Originally Posted by dimbee

Tavaris is a better athlete, but I don't think he's a better quarterback, yet

I think Jackson is better, and so far he has played better than Gus has. Gus is more experienced, and makes some better decisions but that's about it. And being almost 40, he's just a band-aid.

Only reason Jackson got benched cause he simply wasn't winning games, and his coach was feeling the heat.

Those games Jackson did play in though, could have gone either way.

[dimbee]

Originally Posted by hdevonxz

Gus is more experienced, and makes some better decisions but that's about it.

And that, my friend, is what differentiates the two and what is so crucial at the QB position- decision-making

[hdevonxz]

Originally Posted by dimbee

And that, my friend, is what differentiates the two and what is so crucial at the QB position- decision-making

David Carr made good decisions back when he was leading the league in passing accuracy.


He still was a crappy QB.


Brett Favre makes some of the worse throws in the league, yet he's one of the greatest of all time.



Really, just saying that Gus having more experience and making some better decisions doesn't make him better than Jackson.

[dimbee]

OK, OK, Tavaris is the man.



Spare me.

[OneBadassCat]

McNabbs a good qb. What are the biggest struggles of most black QBs in the league?. EX. Young, Vick they have trouble reading defenses. I think this is because most black QBs are mobile and are used to making plays with their feet, weather it be scrambling or getting a guy open. When they get to the NFL they realize they can't always make plays on the fly with their feet and they must learn to adjust to the game, making reads, audibles when you have to and they struggle.

[Mr. Scot]

Originally Posted by dimbee

I don't know the reason why, but it seems that most black QBs in NFL history have not been able to have sustained success

I do

The sad but honest truth: It's because there are a lot more Michael Vicks coming out of the college ranks than there are Warren Moons.

What the average fan often fails to realize is that the distinction isn't between black QBs and white QBs. It's between run-first QBs and pocket passers. College coaches have a tendency with more athletic QBs to skimp on developing their passing skills, choosing instead to turn them into option type guys who use their legs as much, and often more, than their arms.

In college, that can make you a winner.

In the NFL, it makes you a wide receiver (or a runningback, or a safety, or a...you get it).

A quarterback that can pass effectively but run if necessary is a major threat. That's a rare thing in the NFL though, even among white quarterbacks. The nature of the league is such that it is quite possible to succeed as a quarterback if you can pass but can't run. If it's vice versa though, forget it. The best you're likely to ever accomplish is to get some cool highlights on Sportscenter. A Super Bowl ring probably isn't in the cards.

For the record, this sort of thing does often happen to athletic white QBs too (Eric Crouch is probably the best example) but "athlete QBs" are more often black, hence the misconception.

In reality, it's the playing style - not the color of their skin - that's holding them back.

One exception: Jim Tressel of Ohio State resisted the urge to turn Troy Smith into an option style QB and instead trained him to be a pocket passer. In doing so, he did a much better job of preparing Smith to play at the next level. That's not to say that Smith is a guaranteed success. There are other factors (height among them) but at least he had the right training to be a pro QB rather than just another "athlete".

If more college coaches would follow Tressel's example with Smith, you'd see a higher success rate among athletic quarterbacks, regardless of color.

Given how the college game is these days though, I wouldn't hold my breath.


...

[scpanther22]

Originally Posted by OneBadassCat

McNabbs a good qb. What are the biggest struggles of most black QBs in the league?. EX. Young, Vick they have trouble reading defenses. I think this is because most black QBs are mobile and are used to making plays with their feet, weather it be scrambling or getting a guy open. When they get to the NFL they realize they can't always make plays on the fly with their feet and they must learn to adjust to the game, making reads, audibles when you have to and they struggle.

i was just thinking about that why is it most black QBs are scramblers.

[Fireball77]

Originally Posted by X-Clown

Roddy White is not trash, the guy put up 1200 yards with the sucky combo of Harrington/Redman/Leftwich and is having a good year this year with a rookie. Seems that the problem was more than just Vick's receivers. As for the others, it's not like owners haven't been trying to match up their receivers to their quarterbacks. Jacksonville drafted Reggie Williams and Matt Jones in the first round. Michael Jenkins and Roddy White were first round picks (and like I said, White turned out to be pretty good when Vick went to jail). Minnesota just spent big money on Bernard Berrian who is considered a speed receiver, and Sidney Rice has shown flashes of potential. McNair had Derrick Mason. The guy is old now, but he was a 2 time Pro Bowler. Kordell Stewart had the benefit of playing with Plaxico Burress AND Hines Ward, but it didn't help him. I'm not saying that McNabb wasn't right to some degree with his situation, but I don't think that his is necessarily the norm because of his skin color.

And the Eagles went after Moss and inquired about Roy Williams from Det as well I think. That "sucky" Thrash McNabb had in Philly is making some plays for Campbell in Wash. And KT's argument about VY doesn't hold much water either when you see what even an average QB (Collins) does with those same receivers.

You don't hear the media really talking too much about Garrard and Campbell being "black QBs". Why? Because they are good, talented QBs not runners who can't pass well like VY and Vick who need excuses made for them as to why they can't succeed like they have sucky WRs (when they don't) or they need 347,999 years to learn their new offenses. I've thought very highly of both Campbell and Garrard for several years. There's probably even posts on this board that reflect that. I think Campbell in particular is going to be a very good QB soon. I love what I have seen of him. And he is in his 833,022nd new offense and is improving every week. He doesn't need faux excuses made for him because he is getting the job done.

KT, I am disappointed you would make a generalization like that. I know you have a better mind than that post showed.

[X-Clown]

Originally Posted by Fireball77

Why? Because they are good, talented QBs not runners who can't pass well like VY and Vick who need excuses made for them as to why they can't succeed like they have sucky WRs (when they don't) or they need 347,999 years to learn their new offenses.

Jason Whitlock penned an outstanding article about the issues of VY.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8...re-predictable

[King Taharqa]

Originally Posted by Fireball77

And the Eagles went after Moss and inquired about Roy Williams from Det as well I think. That "sucky" Thrash McNabb had in Philly is making some plays for Campbell in Wash. And KT's argument about VY doesn't hold much water either when you see what even an average QB (Collins) does with those same receivers.

Kerry Collins hasnt thrown for over 200 yards yet with those receivers and has 2 TDs in 3 games. Id hardly call that setting the world on fire. What he is doing is "managing" the game and allowing Tenn's defense & running game to win ballgames. The fact remains Tenn's receivers are not that good and their offense is set up to be ultra conservative. People have magically forgotten that it was Kerry Collins who was BENCHED in 06 after the Titans started 0-3 and was replaced by Vince who led them to the playoffs. Now all of sudden, Collins has become a "saviour" of sorts. Kinda ironic.

You don't hear the media really talking too much about Garrard and Campbell being "black QBs". Why? Because they are good, talented QBs not runners who can't pass well like VY and Vick who need excuses made for them as to why they can't succeed like they have sucky WRs (when they don't) or they need 347,999 years to learn their new offenses. I've thought very highly of both Campbell and Garrard for several years. There's probably even posts on this board that reflect that. I think Campbell in particular is going to be a very good QB soon. I love what I have seen of him. And he is in his 833,022nd new offense and is improving every week. He doesn't need faux excuses made for him because he is getting the job done.

Garrard is a good QB, but he hasnt played well this year. He's already got more INTs thru week 4 then he had all of last year. Let Jacksonville miss the playoffs and his "media darling" status will definitely be in jeopardy by the start of next year. There's been other black QBs who have had even more success than him who 2 years later cant get a job in the league. As for Campbell, he's playing very well this year and deserves some credit as you stated. I dont know why you say Thrash is making plays for Campbell, he's got 3 catches in 4 games this year and 9 catches total all of last year. But Ill give u Campbell is making due with the players he has.

As for Vickie dude took so much hate as the QB of his team and I can almost guarantee you his replacement Matt Ryan wont have half the success that Vickie had and wont see half of the hate & criticism. THE LEASH IS LONGER. Much like Vickie for most of his career, Ryan hasnt put up a 200 yard passing game yet as a starter and even when he does, the Falcons wont be anywhere as dangerous a team as they were with Vickie behind center. Does anyone think Ryan "cant read defenses"? Or isnt a "good passer"? When Vick was putting up 180 yard passing performances, thats all we heard. We were told for years Matt Schaub was the better QB in Atlanta. He's in his 2nd year as a starter in Houston and has 13 TDs and 14 INTs in 14 starts. Houston still sucks and I would go out on a limb to say Schaub will never be a pro bowler and probably wont lead Houston to a AFCG. Do you consider Schaub & Ryan better QBs than Vickie was Fireball?