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A Big Bowl of Sanity

Mar 14 2014 07:19 AM Zod Carolina Panthers
From the looks of things on the Huddle as of late, I feel an intervention is needed. Today I actually read a theory that GM David Gettleman is actually purposefully sabotaging the team. It is official - the Huddle has lost its mind.

Let us take a step back from the conspiracy theories, conjecture, and embellishment.

There seems to be three main areas of concern, I will address them individually.

Myth #1 – The Panthers have no offensive line.
Status: FALSE
The Panthers currently have 4 of the 5 starting offensive lineman that the Panthers started training camp with last season. The retirement of Jordan Gross being the only change. Bell, Silotolu, Kalil, Williams, all remain on the roster. The sudden rash of retirements like Jeff Byers and Geoff Hangartner weren't a shock, in fact, they retired because they knew they would not be on the Panthers roster again. The loss of Jordan Gross is significant, but it isn't the end of the world. His play was no longer elite, but above average. Finding an above average left tackle is not an impossible task for David Gettleman considering it is only March. The bigger concern is the leadership on the line that will need filled. I believe Ryan Kalil is more than ready to step in.

Myth #2 – The Panthers have cut all of their wide receivers and are ignoring that need.
Status: FALSE
The 2013 Panthers wide receivers corps were less than stellar, to put it nicely. One good indication of such is TE Greg Olsen, who remains on the roster, was the leading receiver. Thats right, the Panthers leading receiver is still on the roster. Say that over and over again until you feel better.
Steve Smith's release, while heartbreaking and handled terribly, was necessary. Receivers decline quickly when in their mid 30s, and Steve had shown signs of such two years ago. Allowing his contract to continue another year would have made it more difficult to sign core young players all while not guaranteeing an adequate return on investment this season. Gettleman made a tough call, but it was the correct one.
Ted Ginn was exciting to watch, but fans forget the many drops he had that could have gone for long gains. Panthers fans are so thirsty for even average wide receiver play they forget what good receiver play looks like. I would be all in favor for keeping Ginn at a low price, but he is now being over paid in Arizona. You can't fault Gettleman for that.
Brandon Lafell? He may be back. The fact that no one else in the league is even interested tells you all you need to know. Vet minimum? Yep.
All in all, it won't be difficult for Gettleman to match the production of the 2013 wide receivers in 2014. Why? Because there isn't much production to match.

Myth #3 – The loss of Mike Mitchell and Captain Munnerlyn is devastating.
Satus: FALSE
I like Mike Mitchell. I think he is a fine safety. I also think Pittsburgh is going to be very disappointed in the return they get for their high dollar investment in him. Without the Panthers stellar front seven, Mitchell will be an average safety for them making above average money.
The Panthers were please with Robert Lester last season and still have Charles Godfrey under contract. Panthers fans have yet to see how Godfrey performs when the Panthers have featured their current front 7. My guess is he will benefit as much as Mike Mitchell did, maybe even more. We could see Godfrey rise to a new level.
Captain Munnerlyn is an average corner at best, and maybe an above average nickel. He was a liability last season on many downs, most notably against San Francisco. Melvin White and Josh Thomas both will play at a higher level than Munnerlyn in 2014, and at a smaller price tag.

So sit back, take a deep breath, and relax.

Dave's got this.

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105 Comments

:: before

My question, Zod.  Do you think we sign anyone that can contribute in the receiving core?  As much as I LOVE having young talent.  Having two-three rookie Wide Receiver's starting is not a good look for a team.  In my opinion.    

From the looks of things on the Huddle as of late, I feel an intervention is needed. Today I actually read a theory that GM David Gettleman is actually purposefully sabotaging the team. It is official - the Huddle has lost its mind.

Let us take a step back from the conspiracy theories, conjecture, and embellishment.

There seems to be three main areas of concern, I will address them individually.

Myth #1 – The Panthers have no offensive line.
Status: FALSE
The Panthers currently have 4 of the 5 starting offensive lineman that the Panthers started training camp with last season. The retirement of Jordan Gross being the only change. Bell, Silotolu, Kalil, Williams, all remain on the roster. The sudden rash of retirements like Jeff Byers and Geoff Hangartner weren't a shock, in fact, they retired because they knew they would not be on the Panthers roster again. The loss of Jordan Gross is significant, but it isn't the end of the world. His play was no longer elite, but above average. Finding an above average left tackle is not an impossible task for David Gettleman considering it is only March. The bigger concern is the leadership on the line that will need filled. I believe Ryan Kalil is more than ready to step in.

Myth #2 – The Panthers have cut all of their wide receivers and are ignoring that need.
Status: FALSE
The 2013 Panthers wide receivers corps were less than stellar, to put it nicely. One good indication of such is TE Greg Olsen, who remains on the roster, was the leading receiver. Thats right, the Panthers leading receiver is still on the roster. Say that over and over again until you feel better.
Steve Smith's release, while heartbreaking and handled terribly, was necessary. Receivers decline quickly when in their mid 30s, and Steve had shown signs of such two years ago. Allowing his contract to continue another year would have made it more difficult to sign core young players all while not guaranteeing an adequate return on investment this season. Gettleman made a tough call, but it was the correct one.
Ted Ginn was exciting to watch, but fans forget the many drops he had that could have gone for long gains. Panthers fans are so thirsty for even average wide receiver play they forget what good receiver play looks like. I would be all in favor for keeping Ginn at a low price, but he is now being over paid in Arizona. You can't fault Gettleman for that.
Brandon Lafell? He may be back. The fact that no one else in the league is even interested tells you all you need to know. Vet minimum? Yep.
All in all, it won't be difficult for Gettleman to match the production of the 2013 wide receivers in 2014. Why? Because there isn't much production to match.

Myth #3 – The loss of Mike Mitchell and Captain Munnerlyn is devastating.
Satus: FALSE
I like Mike Mitchell. I think he is a fine safety. I also think Pittsburgh is going to be very disappointed in the return they get for their high dollar investment in him. Without the Panthers stellar front seven, Mitchell will be an average safety for them making above average money.
The Panthers were please with Robert Lester last season and still have Charles Godfrey under contract. Panthers fans have yet to see how Godfrey performs when the Panthers have featured their current front 7. My guess is he will benefit as much as Mike Mitchell did, maybe even more. We could see Godfrey rise to a new level.
Captain Munnerlyn is an average corner at best, and maybe an above average nickel. He was a liability last season on many downs, most notably against San Francisco. Melvin White and Josh Thomas both will play at a higher level than Munnerlyn in 2014, and at a smaller price tag.

So sit back, take a deep breath, and relax.

Dave's got this.


Good post but Gross had maybe the best season of his career.
Byron Bell, as terrible as we all thought he was, only gave up 9 more QB hurries, 5 more hits and 3 more sacks than did Gross in the same number of snaps. He did this against LE, who are the top-heavy sack leaders in the league.

If, like he and the staff says, would be better suited at LT because that is his dominant side...it may not be a stretch, based on last season's performance and another off season to improve, that he could be adequate to play LT?

If Wharton comes back for another season and our guards return from injury at 100% (that's a lot of "ifs," i know,) we could be worrying ourselves for little reason. I think it's safe to say that we will draft a lineman that is high on our board with one of our top 3 or 4 picks if he is available and that would give us some competition along the line. Who knows? Gross said he wouldn't leave us in a bad spot if it came down to it. Maybe we're money and don't even know it?

Hard to argue with any of what Zod said.  Our positions of need don't look much different now than they did 2-3 months ago.  Gross and Smitty are extras that we weren't necessarily counting on being gone but now they are.

 

The scary part is that we have missed on the FA's that we have actively pursued.  It's concerning at the very least.  At some point it becomes a fantasy to think a man has planned that far in advance.  There are too many variables to account for and it seems like, at the moment, those variables are breaking against the FO.  How many contingency plans do they reasonably have?

If we had handed out those contracts to Ginn, Mitchell and Captain it would have been a clear sign that NOTHING had changed from Hurney.

Huddle- OMG Hurney is an idiot with his blind loyalty, he has doomed us to cap hell for shelling out huge deals to unnecessary players.

Huddle- Dave Gettleman is a soul-less dick who hates the Panthers and is trying to intentionally burn it to the ground.

logic != compute;


The moral of the story boys and girls is we have been a player in free agency, we signed the biggest free agent out there: Greg Hardy

I'd easily rather have Hardy than Ginn, Captain, and Mitchell.

The only thing that has me confused is Charles Godfrey. I thought if he was designated a June 1st cut, we would clear 7 million off the books. I'll take average safety play (a la Roman Harper) and more money to sign Nicks/or an OT than 7 mill for Godfrey.


I agree with most of this but the Harper thing. That dude has sucked for years now. I rather play Lester then have him getting a pay check from us.

Eh, debatable. He was an average WR and a good #3 WR for us last season. 3.5 million a year sounds about right, especially when you can afford it.

 

It definitely depends on your opinion of his potential. I don't think he was an above-average No.3 receiver, but I can see the argument that he was. 

Hard to argue with any of what Zod said. Our positions of need don't look much different now than they did 2-3 months ago. Gross and Smitty are extras that we weren't necessarily counting on being gone but now they are.

The scary part is that we have missed on the FA's that we have actively pursued. It's concerning at the very least. At some point it becomes a fantasy to think a man has planned that far in advance. There are too many variables to account for and it seems like, at the moment, those variables are breaking against the FO. How many contingency plans do they reasonably have?


Unless I haven't been paying close enough attention, the only one we missed on was the LT from Cincy, who got a good chunk of change from TB. I don't think we offered him near as much (we just don't have that much room to wiggle,) and it appeared that he was destined for TB from the start.

Unless I haven't been paying close enough attention, the only one we missed on was the LT from Cincy, who got a good chunk of change from TB. I don't think we offered him near as much (we just don't have that much room to wiggle,) and it appeared that he was destined for TB from the start.

 

A few of our own FA's were considered priorities by the FO and by either other teams over paying or sheer stubbornness all of them have walked.  Its not just about other teams guys there were a few of our own that the FO wanted to keep but couldn't get it done.

It definitely depends on your opinion of his potential. I don't think he was an above-average No.3 receiver, but I can see the argument that he was.

3.5 is still too much. On top of that, we had Hickson, McNutt, King and Pilares behind him. I know the guy was a good returner and could get open downfield, but damn if he could catch'em, most times he didn't even try...maybe he was better in practice but he was only good in the offense for trick plays.

Our #3 has to be better than that. Ginn wasn't cutting it. No way he performed to the tune of 3.5 million.

A few of our own FA's were considered priorities by the FO and by either other teams over paying or sheer stubbornness all of them have walked.  Its not just about other teams guys there were a few of our own that the FO wanted to keep but couldn't get it done.

 

Understand....but at the contracts they got, I am glad that we didn't get it done

You may run this show, but logical reasoning is not welcomed here for 7 weeks

Unless I haven't been paying close enough attention, the only one we missed on was the LT from Cincy, who got a good chunk of change from TB. I don't think we offered him near as much (we just don't have that much room to wiggle,) and it appeared that he was destined for TB from the start.


All I see is why isn't DG doing something or why won't he sign someone anyone!
He makes offers to players he cannot physically make them come here! Collins had his choice and he saw fit that Tampa was his best option, it's not like DG is doing nothing, he's negotiating all day id assume like most GMs but when you have no money there's little leverage you have.

A few of our own FA's were considered priorities by the FO and by either other teams over paying or sheer stubbornness all of them have walked. Its not just about other teams guys there were a few of our own that the FO wanted to keep but couldn't get it done.


Look at the price tags and then look again. We didn't have the cash to pay that much and it has nothing to do with stubbornness.

Aside from the Steve Smith release, if you didn't see this offseason coming, you were not paying attention.

 

 

The 2013 team was studded with 1-year deal castaways. These players played their tails off, and benefited from an elite core (which remains with the team). 

 

Had we finished with a record of say 8-8 or 9-7, we might have been able to keep Mitchell or Ginn.  But when you win your division on the way to a 12-4 record, guys are going to get big offers from teams with dreams of the playoffs.

 

Gettleman and Co. are looking to the future.  Why lock up a Ginn or Mitchell or Cap'n when viable replacements can and will be found for cheaper? 

 

The idea is to get out of the cap troubles the team is currently in, all while saving enough dough to retain the superstars on the team.

 

Sustained success.  Sustained success. Sustained success. 

 

We are going through growing pains on the way to becoming a franchise that is relevant year in and year out.  I think we will look back at this period as a major transition for the franchise.  It's not easy, and it ain't pretty...but it's necessary.

man you sugar coated of the offensive line. williams if god awful, Silotolu just came off a major knee injury and Bell is avg at best. that makes for one piss poor Oline. 

Spoon or no spoon with that bowl of sanity?

Aside from the Steve Smith release, if you didn't see this offseason coming, you were not paying attention.


The 2013 team was studded with 1-year deal castaways. These players played their tails off, and benefited from an elite core (which remains with the team).

Had we finished with a record of say 8-8 or 9-7, we might have been able to keep Mitchell or Ginn. But when you win your division on the way to a 12-4 record, guys are going to get big offers from teams with dreams of the playoffs.

Gettleman and Co. are looking to the future. Why lock up a Ginn or Mitchell or Cap'n when viable replacements can and will be found for cheaper?

The idea is to get out of the cap troubles the team is currently in, all while saving enough dough to retain the superstars on the team.

Sustained success. Sustained success. Sustained success.

We are going through growing pains on the way to becoming a franchise that is relevant year in and year out. I think we will look back at this period as a major transition for the franchise. It's not easy, and it ain't pretty...but it's necessary.


I agree with this but I still don't think this team still has a corp that is good enough to compete for the playoffs every year. We shouldn't accept a down year for no reason. With a franchise QB and a top 5 defense.

Hey guys, at least we don't have the Oakland GM he has the most money and still fugged up in free agency, over paying over the hill players and letting there best players walk, and not even getting the LT they needed. We could be doing a lot worse.

The anger is more about Smitty being cut like a sh*t.

Everything else is another story.

All I see is why isn't DG doing something or why won't he sign someone anyone!
He makes offers to players he cannot physically make them come here! Collins had his choice and he saw fit that Tampa was his best option, it's not like DG is doing nothing, he's negotiating all day id assume like most GMs but when you have no money there's little leverage you have.

 

That is the issue....the fans just want a splash, regardless of whether it is the right or wrong move.

Only thing I disagree with is Captain. I can't say Thomas played better than him. Even White.

Captain was fantastic as a nickel DB. In fact he was one of the best in the league.

That said he is not worth that kind of money and if Minny plays him outside, they are in for a rude awakening.

And i forgot, Roman Harper visiting the Panthers...

ZOMG!  Rational thought!?  But we haven't signed all the FAs!  We're loosers!  Already!  In March!  Sell the Team!  Move to LA!  Fire EVERYONE!!  Burn!  Burn!  Burn!

 

Oh, not that kind of thread =P

 

While its hard to watch other kids open their presents (FAs), we have to understand its all part of the plan.  This time last year was just as crazy around here.  We all need to settle down, let it ride.  How often do teams that sign all the BIG $$$ FAs win it all?  It's all about being smart, finding guys for your system.

 

I'll miss Mitchell.  He was fun.  Ginn was exciting.  And Captain was a great story, who knew what to do with the ball in his hands.  I'm glad they are getting paid, and wish them well.  These guys were absolute cast offs last season.  And we went 12-4.  This year, we kept the best over all FA (according to several sites), have a majority of our important pieces coming back.  We just need to find the right players to fill in our roster spots.  For all the crying about the WR position, we can find a 600 yard / 5 TD any where.  The leadership void will be filled by Cam.  It's all part of G-man's desire to test and push Cam into a leadership role.

 

In Gettleman we trust!

Thank you Zod - I tried to say the same thing last night in this thread  http://www.carolinah...ve-lost-so-far/ but was no where near as elequent as you.