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If Kenjon Barner shows competence, is Deangelo gone on June 1?

May 07 2013 08:15 AM Zod Carolina Panthers
Kenjon Barner is a wiry 5'9 and 196 which is a good contrast to Stewart. His running style is more like Deangelo's than Jonathan, relying more on being elusive than powering through the defense.

The biggest knocks on Barner coming out was his propensity to run high and cut to the outside too much instead of taking it between the tackles.

Fast Forward to May practices outside of Bank of America Stadium.

Jim Skipper is once again the running backs coach. If he sees progress with Barner will that push the Deangelo cap issue to the forefront? How much progress will need to be seen?

For instance, lets say they coach him into running lower relatively easily. This shows real promise that he will improve as a prospect throughout camp. Some running backs NEVER learn to run lower (Eric Shelton).

So if he shows at least some real progress in just a few weeks, would that be enough to cut Deangelo Williams and save millions?

Do you think the friendship between Jim Skipper and Deangelo Williams effects his judgement or will Gettleman not allow personal feelings to be involved?

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114 Comments

:: before

I think Williams is gone no matter what. We have got to sign Hardy to a new contract before the season starts and releasing Williams might allow that to happen.

 

It will be sad to see - Stewart and DWill in their glory days were so fun to watch. But that era ended when we signed Cam.

 

Don't be surprised if we don't sign Hardy to a new contract.

he is the most talented RB we have, however we don't use him right, nor enough, to justify his contract. 

 

he was the most talented back

Not a fan of cutting our most productive rb. Yea he was demoted last season but only on paper as he received more carries than when he was the "starter" plus Stewart didn't exactly shine in the starting roll. Deangelo was a key factor in our wins down the stretch.


His production was greatly distorted last season....he really wasn't that productive outside of the Saints.

That was 14 games vs 2. In those other 14 r basically took a 1 screen pass to the house and was very unimpressive outside that play

2011:                                                                                         2012:

 

Williams:  836 rush yds 7 td    135 rec yds 0 td                                         737 rush yds 5 td          187 rec yds  2 td

Stewart:   761 rush yds 4 td    413 rec yds 1 td                                         336 rush yds 1 td          157 rec yds  1 td

Newton:   706 rush yds 14 td    27 rec yds 0 td                                         741 rush yds 8 td              0 rec yds  0 td

 

 

For me, Deangelo is a good back, but way overpaid for the contribution/value he has brought to the team since signing the contract.  When you take into account that Stewart played half as many games in '12, you see Williams actually went down by 100 yds, which is further proof that he's hitting that age when RBs decline.  Since signing the contract, we haven't made the playoffs nor had our previous ground n' pound style of play.  We all know the contract is toxic and has been since it was announced under the previous regime.  No way he is on the team in 2014, but I don't think it's a financial advantage to cut him this June 1.  His albatross contract has kept us out of the free agent market and out of the playoffs.  I love him as a player, but his presence is negatively affecting the team's flexibility to improve.

 

I think he's gone next year. Barner will be nurtured and probably only play situationally and on PR/KR. Don't forget we have Tolbert as well, who played pretty good down the stretch.

 

The fact is Williams wasn't that great last season, apart for the game v the Saints, and with the trend of RBs deteriorating around it his age, logic says he won't get better. Only reason he hasn't been cut yet, is due to the salary cap connotations. IIRC it'll be much easier to cut him next year.

 

He's still useful and if used right we can get good production from him. That zone read thing never really suited him and that also played into his struggles. If we run a mainly pro-style under Shula, we could see better production from him as the 2nd back, assuming Stew is healthy. 

Don't be surprised if we don't sign Hardy to a new contract.

 

i'm kind of expecting him to walk unless he agrees to a much smaller contract than johnson.

 

that said, i wouldn't be surprised if hardy did that.

 

hardy said what he wants more than anything is respect and it sounded like he was talking about from the league in general, for his pass rushing abilities and he seems bent on showing everyone that disrespected him by passing over him in the draft just how good he is and what they missed out on.

 

i think if the team gives him a respectable and competitive offer in line with the current market instead of a slap in the face tiny one, he'll re-sign. i don't think that he'll be someone to demand to be the highest or one of the highest paid guys in the league. it all depends on how reasonable he is with his expectations for getting paid.

Don't be surprised if we don't sign Hardy to a new contract.

 

I actually wouldnt be - but that would be the team betting on Alexander over Hardy.

he was the most talented back

 

And who is the new guy?

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Way Truth Life
May 07 2013 11:09 AM

Then why for the past 2 years do they think Stewart should see the field more than Williams?

It's weird really....

 

Williams has 2000 APY and 14 TDs and Stewart has 1600 APY and 7 TDs in the last 2 years and Williams has almost a full YPC more than Stewart last year and they had the exact same YPC in 2011.

 

so...I really have no idea why Stewart saw the field more...it's baffling.

Doesn't mean much now but it would be kind of ironic if DeAngelo's last game as a Panther would be one where he breaks the franchise's single-game record for rushing yards.

 

As it is, I think he's cut in 2014.

And who is, the new guy?

 

Cam

 

haha

 

But really.

No.  DeAngelo may be a June 1st cut, but it's much more likely to be NEXT offseason.

His production was greatly distorted last season....he really wasn't that productive outside of the Saints.

That was 14 games vs 2. In those other 14 r basically took a 1 screen pass to the house and was very unimpressive outside that play


Deangelo-4.3 yards per carry last season
Stewart-3.6 yards per carry last season
Tolbert-3.4 yards per carry last season

You could argue that Stewart was hurt but that's all the more reason to keep Dwill on the team. We are better team with him than without him.

His production was greatly distorted last season....he really wasn't that productive outside of the Saints.

That was 14 games vs 2. In those other 14 r basically took a 1 screen pass to the house and was very unimpressive outside that play


Deangelo-4.3 yards per carry last season
Stewart-3.6 yards per carry last season
Tolbert-3.4 yards per carry last season

You could argue that Stewart was hurt but that's all the more reason to keep Dwill on the team. We are a better team with him than without him.

It's weird really....

Williams has 2000 APY and 14 TDs and Stewart has 1600 APY and 7 TDs in the last 2 years and Williams has almost a full YPC more than Stewart last year and they had the exact same YPC in 2011.

so...I really have no idea why Stewart saw the field more...it's baffling.


Because he's younger and they want to make him the future but I think he needs Dwill more than people realize.
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carolina-chuck
May 07 2013 11:23 AM

I'll say it again: Pass protection most likely keeps Williams around.


Agree.
One of the biggest knock I've seen on Barner is his ability to pass protect.
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carolina-chuck
May 07 2013 11:24 AM
Dwill isn't going anywhere, I think.

Dwill will be cut regardless IMO.

I really like DWill and he's still a good player, just not worth the contract.

I'd take a 7th for him like JOAT said, just get that nonsense off the books.

I don't think we cut him. the ultimate scenario would be to trade him partway into the season to a team with injuries at the position if we've seen barner's capable and stew's healthy at that point in the season

DWill needs to be cut either way.

 

That said Del is right, if he could pass protect he would have probably gone higher in the draft.

Deangelo-4.3 yards per carry last season
Stewart-3.6 yards per carry last season
Tolbert-3.4 yards per carry last season

You could argue that Stewart was hurt but that's all the more reason to keep Dwill on the team. We are better team with him than without him.

 

one game distorts an awful lot...going into week 17, williams averaged 3.5ypc

Williams will be on the opening day roster, baring an unforeseen trade.

we have to see if barner is fumble prone or not in the pros. goodson probably would have replaced williams had he not fumbled every other carry.

It's weird really....

Williams has 2000 APY and 14 TDs and Stewart has 1600 APY and 7 TDs in the last 2 years and Williams has almost a full YPC more than Stewart last year and they had the exact same YPC in 2011.

so...I really have no idea why Stewart saw the field more...it's baffling.


Stewart saw the field more in 2011 bc he allowed the O to be more diverse. Pretty simple.

Stewart was hurt last year....on top of the Saints games GREATLY distorting what Willams was. Stewart was better even gimpy in games in 2012 that didn't involve the worst D in the history of the game