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"Losing Environment"

Oct 23 2012 05:51 AM Zod Carolina Panthers
Interesting article from the Charlotte Observer

http://www.charlotte...ends-marty.html

This is about, in my mind, having to make changes to change an atmosphere that really has become a losing environment.


Read more here: http://www.charlotte...l#storylink=cpy



Hurney hit the nail on the head. The Panthers have absolutely cultured an environment that accepts losing. Of course, they never admit to it. If asked, they immediately say how much they want to win. Easy to say, more difficult to show every day in practice and on Sundays.

The example was set. Lose and everyone still gets a paycheck, sometimes a pay raise. If you had to pinpoint when this started, you may have to look at the Arizona playoff game where Delhomme threw 5 interceptions and was rewarded by a huge contract extension. The Panthers have not had a winning record since.

While Hurney was not on the field or making play calls, he was absolutely integral in creating this "losing environment" that needs to be made with his poor personnel decisions.

It took several seasons for the losing mentality to infect this team. Its something that won't go away this season, or maybe next. But players now realize the days of big paychecks for mediocre play are over. That in itself may start to turn this thing in the right direction.

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:: before

We have to dump as many veterans as financially possible. They are all been infected with the loser virus and there is no cure. Get them out of here before they infect our young players.
The example was originally set by Richardson, through his instructions to Hurney, so he could build a warchest and ride the Lockout as long as it took to break the players. 0-16 was fine with him as long as it meant he had leverage over the NFLPA.

We have to dump as many veterans as financially possible. They are all been infected with the loser virus and there is no cure. Get them out of here before they infect our young players.


Easy this is a curable virus.They just need to do their job.
Ever since Rivera started losing games last year, he's been preaching "We're a young team. There are going to be growing pains. The wins will come. blah blah blah."

And then we had players publicly attacking Cam for not shaking off losses.
Well one player did publicly say last year that Carolina was a losing environment and was heavily criticized for it
I've mentioned this in one of the many "b*tch and moan" threads that have popped up since it was evident this season was going to be bad... But, I said there was a "culture of losing." That's not something that should be taken lightly.

I remember when Fox first came in and why everyone loved him was because one of the first things he said was "A lot of you aren't going to be here, and no one's job is safe," that's not verbatim, but close. He turned over most of the roster after that. Almost all of the players, especially the core ones from Seifert's time here, were gone shortly thereafter.

I don't think we'll quite need that degree of house cleaning, but it's no joke... Once you've sucked for this long, you have to change the mentality, and some of those guys can't do it - they've grown accustomed to the "It's okay, we have next week" mentality, and they won't be able to change it (unless they are released and sign with a winning team who expects to win).

It is like a cloud that hangs over the locker room. Some of the guys who have been here since 2009 probably don't even notice it because they're used to it. That's how losing breeds itself within a lockerroom. It festers, grows, becomes acceptable, and then it just becomes a way of life and no one has answers on how to change it.
sounds like Hurney doesn't realize he played a huge part in said losing environment...

Interesting article from the Charlotte Observer

http://www.charlotte...ends-marty.html



Hurney hit the nail on the head. The Panthers have absolutely cultured an environment that accepts losing. Of course, they never admit to it. If asked, they immediately say how much they want to win. Easy to say, more difficult to show every day in practice and on Sundays.

The example was set. Lose and everyone still gets a paycheck, sometimes a pay raise. If you had to pinpoint when this started, you may have to look at the Arizona playoff game where Delhomme threw 5 interceptions and was rewarded by a huge contract extension. The Panthers have not had a winning record since.

While Hurney was not on the field or making play calls, he was absolutely integral in creating this "losing environment" that needs to be made with his poor personnel decisions.

It took several seasons for the losing mentality to infect this team. Its something that won't go away this season, or maybe next. But players now realize the days of big paychecks for mediocre play are over. That in itself may start to turn this thing in the right direction.

i think fox played a huge part in this as well.

sure, he started off hard and tough enough, but soon after experiencing early success it got to where it was just about maintaining the status quo. fox wanted to do the same things with the same people thinking that it would bring about the same success. i mean you could tell it from interviews after that AZ playoff stomp. fox said that they used the same game plan from their game against the cards early in the season where they won. no adjustments...did the same thing with the same people expecting the same results, not taking into account that other teams might be making adjustments and might have changed some things in the 10 or so weeks between the first and second time they met.

he was too quick with "it is what it is" which i always viewed as an apathetic response of just accepting the way things were with no desire to change.

i said it many times before...that fox was a good guy, but he wasn't able to bring the most out of his players because he was more interested in being "just good enough". you don't have to be great...you just have to be better than average. it set the bar low for himself and the players and it was a goal that they just barely met on good years.

i really didn't like the culture of apathy that was being formed in the team. then hurney went and gave jake that contract after it was obvious that he was very much on the downside of his career. they gave him that contract because they wanted to show that they had his back...which is fine, but it also told the rest of the team that the organization is going to be loyal to them because we brought them here and they don't have to worry about what they do on the field or even if they haven't been able to stay healthy. it also told the fanbase that what is most important here is being loyal to your players and not ensuring that the team is able to win games. being nice and loyal >>> being winners.

i like that richardson wasn't satisfied with the direction the team was going and that they weren't creating a winning team and gave fox that ultimatum to have two winning seasons in a row doing it the fox way or richardson would tear it down and start all over. the mistake richardson made was keeping the two guys responsible for creating that mess around as long as he did. fox should have been gone after the '09 season and hurney with him....just to start with a truly clean slate.

by not doing that and letting 2010 become the clusterf*ck it became (which he should have anticipated) he found a way to tell the players that he's ok with keeping people with no real incentive to be here other than to collect a check and finish out their contract.

it's just been one bad message after another with everyone lowering the bar of expectation.

drafting cam was a great step in the right direction in trying to change the culture here. firing hurney is another step in letting the team know that they aren't interested in being loyal anymore to staff and players...they are interested in building a winning team and if you don't help make that happen, if you don't pull your own weight and if you don't make things better, you become expendable.
Losing environment is last years news. Cam addressed it already, but unfortunately it still exists
Cam has already said before that we've had a losing environment.....and that was last year.
This team is an exact reflection of Jerry Richardson and not Marty Hurney. To think that someone so involved in every aspect of the NFL negotiations would then turn around and be hands off on his own team is preposterous.

Jerry Richardson walked away from the NFL over $1,000 on pricinple. He squandered a season because he did not want to pay players in his lock out or fire Fox because he was still under contract. He says he has a responsibility to his share holders....who are those shareholders? Hugh McColl or the 70,000 people that show up every Sunday to watch Jerry's team under perform.

The culture of losing is one that Richardson has grown and cultivated because he is basically a silent Al Davis. He is meddlesome and while his investment in the Panthers has grown on the fleecing of the fans his has been a failure in regards to owning a successful team.

This team is an exact reflection of Jerry Richardson and not Marty Hurney. To think that someone so involved in every aspect of the NFL negotiations would then turn around and be hands off on his own team is preposterous.

Jerry Richardson walked away from the NFL over $1,000 on pricinple. He squandered a season because he did not want to pay players in his lock out or fire Fox because he was still under contract. He says he has a responsibility to his share holders....who are those shareholders? Hugh McColl or the 70,000 people that show up every Sunday to watch Jerry's team under perform.

The culture of losing is one that Richardson has grown and cultivated because he is basically a silent Al Davis. He is meddlesome and while his investment in the Panthers has grown on the fleecing of the fans his has been a failure in regards to owning a successful team.

Perfect.
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I know BofA stadium is a losing environment. It's not even fun to go to games anymore. Fans are negative as hell and for good reason. Everything sucks right now. Black helmets would change everything.
I totally expect Smith and maybe CJ gone with the new coach and GM. Both bucked Rivera since he got here.
It's an evaluation, it's a process
I understand that Hurney had to go. The record speaks for itself. I'm not a Hurney apologist, but I don't understand the value of getting rid of him now vs. just cleaning house at the end of this season.
Are we to believe that Hurney built a power run team and then forced Rivera and Chud to run a college option scheme? It makes no sense to me why Hurney is gone but Rivera and Chud still have a job.
The losing environment here can be corrected without wholesale player cuts. Some player cuts sure - but wholesale house cleaning isn't necessary for this reason alone. We clearly need to overhaul player personnel for other reasons in other areas - but not for the sole purpose of fixing this shitty culture.

What is necessary is for a clear message of "this is no longer fuging acceptable" to start at the top of the organization and filter down through it. That message was sent by the owner when Hurney was fired. The players will see that but it's on Rivera to impress that upon his coaching staff and upon the coaching staff (Rivera AND the assistants - whether already on the staff or replacements that are here for performance reasons) to impress that upon the players.

It's not going to happen overnight but it's certainly a curable situation.

I understand that Hurney had to go. The record speaks for itself. I'm not a Hurney apologist, but I don't understand the value of getting rid of him now vs. just cleaning house at the end of this season.
Are we to believe that Hurney built a power run team and then forced Rivera and Chud to run a college option scheme? It makes no sense to me why Hurney is gone but Rivera and Chud still have a job.

Because Hurney didn't have a contract and Rivera has a four year contract. JR already has enough money invested in players we don't need. No reason to waste even more money right now. Wait and be patient. At least let Rivera finish out the season and see what happens.
smith won't be gone.

CJ might, but not because of his performance.
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Herbert The Love Bug
Oct 23 2012 03:04 PM
I really do think Smith and CJ will both be gone. They are big contributors to our losing environment. They both have terrible attitudes and think they can get away with anything. That has to change. In my opinion they both need to be gone in order for us to move forward.
It takes a coach who won't take poo and demands that his players work. We've seen the turn around happen in programs, recently with SF and Tampa, but I was also at Purdue when Joe Tiller came to town. PU had a history of being mediocre and sucking. He came in and immediately kicked the star DE off the team for being a lazy fat ass. I thought he was crazy at the time for booting his cream talent (there were others as well), but the team responded and he quickly built a winning program. He demanded hard work, and his teams played hard and earned their wins.

I was able to do the same thing with the PU waterpolo team during that time. When I arrived, they played around during practice and were a soft 9th in the Big 10. I kicked them in the ass, pushed them and didn't take their poo. I laughed at the captain during practice once when he told me that they were tired and needed a break...he was being a lazy fat ass. My first year we made it to the Big 10 championship game. The next year we won the Big 10 tourney and placed 5th at Nationals. After we won the Big 10 tourney, one of the guys came up to me and thanked me for turning them around. He said that I rode their asses hard for two years, and it won them the championship.

If JR will hire a coach with a no bull philosophy (someone who wants to completely dominate the other team, not just have a good game and show improvement), then he can have his winning program. Soft coaches = soft players = limp dick football that we've been seeing for the last several years. As a former athlete and a winning coach, it really pisses me off. RR was saying all the right things when he got here, but we just don't see it on the field. It seems as though he's just as soft as Fox was.
Part of it is Jerry's fail safe PSL revenue that pretty much guarantees financial stasis for him, as well as a passionless fanbase that will lap up anything they put on the field and just accept excuses for failure.

This allows everything else such as contract extensions for Charles Godfrey lol. Your losing environment brought to you by a culture of complacency
I don't see how our team could not be fired up for every game and every play given the inspiration of having Thomas Davis going full speed. I bet TD is pissed.
"To think that someone so involved in every aspect of the NFL negotiations would then turn around and be hands off on his own team is preposterous.
Jerry Richardson walked away from the NFL over $1,000 on pricinple. He squandered a season because he did not want to pay players in his lock out or fire Fox because he was still under contract. He says he has a responsibility to his share holders....who are those shareholders? Hugh McColl or the 70,000 people that show up every Sunday to watch Jerry's team under perform."

From: Panthro

"The example was originally set by Richardson, through his instructions to Hurney, so he could build a warchest and ride the Lockout as long as it took to break the players. 0-16 was fine with him as long as it meant he had leverage over the NFLPA."
From: Carolina Husker

This and this...
I've been ranting about this for a few years now and, finally, it's getting some notice.

And just to keep the game of football (not the business, mind you, but the game) in perspective- perhaps it would take nothing more than cheap, high quality jerseys to turn the Panthers around.
Jordan Gross and Chris Gamble are perfect examples, especially Gross. For him to be the highest paid Panther this year, losses just roll off his Back like nothing now.