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Everything you need to know about our cap, potential cuts and free agents.

Feb 07 2013 10:30 AM panther4life Carolina Panthers
First of all here are the best links available to help you understand our cap situation and rules.

http://www.eaglescap...alyzingCBA.html (faq on the rules)

http://www.askthecom...laryCap/faq.asp (another faq on the rules)

http://www.spotrac.c...nthers/cap-hit/ (Our cap hits and access to details on every players contract..Click on specific player's full contract to see future cap hits and signing bonus money still counting against the cap in future years)

http://espn.go.com/n...ct-cap-strategy (Every teams updated cap space, except for Giants who have already begun making cuts).

Heres some things you need to know.

Signing bonus- This is guaranteed money players receive as soon as their contract is signed. This money can be and often is spread over the course of a player contracts for up to 5 years. This means the player already has the money but the hit against the cap is spread out. If we cut a player we are no longer responsible for their base salary and owe them nothing. The only deterrent to cutting a player with a large signing bonus is we still have to take the hit against the cap of whatever guaranteed money has not already been accounted for against the cap.

Base Salary- This is the yearly money a player will receive if still on the team, this money and their amortized signing bonus, plus any other workout bonus accounts for our total cap hit.

Dead Money- This refers to money that counts against the cap from players who were cut before their signing bonus has been fully accounted for against the cap.

June 1st cuts- Teams can divide up the remaining dead money or unaccounted for against the cap signing bonus money from players cut over the current year and the next.
*As we did with Wharton last year the new CBA allows for a team to cut up to 2 players before June 1st and still be designated as a June 1st cut, hence allowing a team to spread the hit over 2 years without officially having to wait until June to do so.

March 12th- This is our first deadline to be under the cap(first day of the league year and start of free agency). When we cut down to 53 in September we will have to make sure we are under the cap again.

131.8 Million- This is the amount we are currently have committed to the 2013 cap. The cap is right at 121 Million for 2013.

4,526,462- The amount of the dead money already hitting our cap for 2013. Most of this came from 2 players, Mare(2 Million) and Wharton(1.8 million)

4.5-5 million- The amount our rookie class should roughly count against our cap. (Brockers the 14th overall last year counted 2.164 Million against the rams cap last year, Mychal Kendricks the 46th overall pick last year count just over 1 million against the eagles cap last year thats roughly 3.75 million to our 2 first rounders, plus we'll have a few other picks counting less as well)

Easiest way to calculate for yourself- Go to the spotrac website referenced above. Look at the cap hits and how much remaining signing bonus money we have spread out on each player by clicking on their name. IF you cut that player ignore their base salary and just use the signing bonus money as a cap hit. Choose to spread it out over 1 or 2 years. Keep in mind spreading it out over 2 years can be very helpful but just creates more dead money down the road.


Ways to save without using June 1st rule and piling up dead money for 2014 as well
Cutting Gross would save us 10.7 Million
Cutting Gamble would save us 8.95 million
Cutting Ron Edwards would save us 2.5 million
Cutting Gary Williams would save us 1.125 Million
Cutting Hangartner would save 1.575
Cutting Nakumara would save $967,000


*We could cut other players but if won't save us close to a million no point in fooling with them right now.

**Gross and Gamble should be very easy to restructure as their contracts are almost up and have very little leverage because their remaining signing bonus money to hit the cap is very small(1 Million for Gross and 2 million for Gamble).

Players that would have to be a june 1st cut to save us money this year and by default next year too, but will cause dead money to be on the books in 2014.
Cutting Beason would have an immediate savings of 3.5 million this year and 6.75 million next year.

Cutting Deangleo would have an immediate savings us of 3.4 million in 13 and 4.4 million in 2014. Cutting D-will will also create another 4.6 million in dead money for 2014, because he has a total of 9.6 million in signing bonus scheduled to hit the cap over the next 3 years.

Further reading on Beason situation.
Something has to be done here because not only does he have a large cap hit for 13(9.5 million) it goes up to 10.75 in 2014 and 11.75 in 2015. Since he has 12 million in signing bonus money scheduled to hit the books over the next 3 years( 4 million a year) if we cut him now it would require an immediate hit of the full 12 million. That is more than his current cap hit of 9.5 million if we keep him. Therefore if were going to cut him it makes more sense to do it as a june 1st cut if looking for the cap relief for this year. However if Gettleman can get us under the cap without making him a june 1st cut 2014 will have a much better outlook as we won't have 6 million in dead money already committed to the books.

Further reading on Deangleo Williams situation.

Cutting D-will will also create another 4.6 million in dead money for 2014, because he has a total of 9.6 million in signing bonus scheduled to hit the cap over the next 3 years. If we can bite the bullet on him for this year and hold off on cutting him until next year it would be much more ideal from a fiscal sense. If we cut him next year we can do it before June 1st and still save 2.8 million without carrying over dead money into 2015.

1 other wildcard here would be James Anderson but much like Deangleo if you look at his contract it makes much more sense to wait another year on him .http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/james-anderson.

In summary it looks nice and pretty to cut Gamble and Gross but because they have little signing bonus money yet to hit the cap, it provides us a good leverage in negotiating a restructure or small extension. On the flip side someone like Beason who has 12 million in signing bonus money yet to hit our cap has the upper hand on us in regards to not renegotiating if does not want to. I just think much like Wharton, Beason's time is up because we have drafted his much cheaper replacement.

Heres our 2013 Unrestricted Free Agents
Dwan Edwards
Jordan Senn
Antwan Applewhite
Captain Munnerlyn
Louis Murphy
Sherrod Martin
Ben Hartstock
Gary Barnidge
Mike Pollack
Derek Anderson

Restricted Free Agents
Jason Phillips
Nate Ness
Richie Brockel
Andre Neblett

**also something to keep in mind is that Hardy will be a free agent next year and Cam the following year. Both these players are on pace to demand larger contracts so we need to cut back on the trend of doing june 1st cuts and carrying "dead money" over as much as possible so we can retain them.

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175 Comments

:: before

I would imagine the new GM is sorting through about 20 slightly different ways to "fix" this mess.

I bet currently the focus is on dealing with agents and once they know who they can restruture and have addressed.....heads then roll. Serves no real purpose to cut him today.

yep. you don't cut anyone until you have a better option.

it's like quitting your job before you've gone out to find a better one. it just puts you behind the 8 ball and limits viable options.
Well, at least we aren't the only team in cap trouble....

Albert Breer ‏@AlbertBreer
10 Ravens account for $69M in 2013 cap space. And that doesn't acct for Flacco, Reed, Ellerbe, Kruger, Dickson, Pitta

Well, at least we aren't the only team in cap trouble....

Albert Breer ‏@AlbertBreer
10 Ravens account for $69M in 2013 cap space. And that doesn't acct for Flacco, Reed, Ellerbe, Kruger, Dickson, Pitta


Well, they really timed that win well then. Apparently Bolden is willing to extend to lower his cap number otherwise they'd have to cut him.
Boldin also said he will retire if he is cut.
Nice job. Somebody has plenty of time on their hands it seems.

What you are describing above would be a definite violation of the cap. Not maybe. Definite.

If it was that easy to get around the cap, every club would be doing it.


That is exactly what I said, that it isn't allowed. Hence it not being against the salary cap.

yep. there's no way that would be allowed. huge violation. the team would get into a poo ton of trouble. you can not give players anything beyond what is stated in the contract.


I never said it would be allowed. I'm merely giving an example. The guy said paying for gas money affects the salary cap. It absolutely does not. Outside of the fact that no owner would bother to report that to the NFL, it doesn't go against the cap because it isn't in the contract.

What he was initial talking about was salary cap but that long article he posted was referring to team salary. Stuff like that affects that, I guess. But not salary cap.

I wasn't saying that was allowed. I was giving reasons as to why it isn't allowed. Anything paid to a player outside of the contract or special things like retirement and such do not go against the cap.
Is Stewarts contract equally as restrictive for us?

That is all nice and all. But no, money paid outside of the contract agreed upon by the player and team does not go against the salary cap. Sure, you can count it as the players salary if you want. But it wouldn't go against the cap.

So, if Jerry Richardson paid Newton $3 million for a new house, it wouldn't go against the salary cap because it wasn't in the contract. It would just be Richardson paying his own money to Newton. If Jerry Jones paid $3 dollars to Romo to pay for gas, it would not go against the cap.

Which is why that isn't allowed or else every big market team would do that (pay more money than they are allowed) to pry players to them.

Though, re-reading your post, I hope you know I'm talking about the salary cap (which is what you said). Not a teams salary (how much the team is making). They aren't the same thing.


Well, your wrong again as usual. Perhaps you need to go read the CBA yourself. It doesn't copy & paste well.

What in the world are you talking about salary cap vs salary ? What do mean they are not the same thing? It's SALARY and it HAS A CAP.

The CBA gives the definition of salary, including that: "Salary means the compensation in money, property, investments, loans or anything else of value..."

Then you say "if Jerry Richardson paid Newton $3 million for a new house, it wouldn't go against the salary cap because it wasn't in the contract."

Well, the CBA just said salary includes property or anything else of value. Well, a new house is "property" and you even put a "value on it" .... $3 million according to you. So IF that happens it counts as "salary" and does indeed go against the "salary cap".

The CBA when finishing up what counts against the salary cap says "Any other Salary not listed above paid to players shall be included in Team Salary."

Surely your reading comprehension isn't as bad as you make it out to be. Why on earth would the CBA be talking about "salary" in the "salary cap" section if salary doesn't count against the cap ???
And you want to know the key thing you left out of all of that?

Salary, however, does not include benefits.


Also:

The "Team Salary" falls under the Salary Cap. Team salary includes the amount a team must pay its current or former players under their player contracts.


Key word, their contracts. If Richardson gave Newton money outside of his contract, it is not going to count against the salary cap. If every single dime given to a player affected the salary cap, why has the money Richardson gave Olsen for transportation to help his son, TJ, not affected our cap yet?

It was a benefit. Just like paying for gas would be a benefit. Just like Richardson paying for Newton's house would classify as benefits.

So no, I am not wrong. But if you'd like to continue this, go right ahead. However, you are being foolish to think Richardson buying Newton's house actually affects the football teams cap. It's a benefit. It isn't agreed upon in the contract. It doesn't affect the salary cap. Or again, as the example above, the money (how much it was) JR paid Olsen would have affected it. Which it quite obviously didn't, and quite clearly wouldn't.

And you want to know the key thing you left out of all of that?



Also:



Key word, their contracts. If Richardson gave Newton money outside of his contract, it is not going to count against the salary cap. If every single dime given to a player affected the salary cap, why has the money Richardson gave Olsen for transportation to help his son, TJ, not affected our cap yet?

It was a benefit. Just like paying for gas would be a benefit. Just like Richardson paying for Newton's house would classify as benefits.

So no, I am not wrong. But if you'd like to continue this, go right ahead. However, you are being foolish to think Richardson buying Newton's house actually affects the football teams cap. It's a benefit. It isn't agreed upon in the contract. It doesn't affect the salary cap. Or again, as the example above, the money (how much it was) JR paid Olsen would have affected it. Which it quite obviously didn't, and quite clearly wouldn't.


If you would read CBA section 4(a) you would see it said "but not including Benefits". You would read the exact defination of "benefits" in Article 12, section 2. To summarize it's things like: Pension funding, group insurance, workers' comp., s.s. taxes, per diems, Gene Upshaw Health Account, "88 Benefit" (dementia), the Legacy Benefit, etc. When you say "It's a benefit. It isn't agreed upon in the contract." Do you actually believe these benefits aren't spelled out in the contract?

You would have that found other things "not in a player's contract" like drafted rookies salaries are included as of day of the draft (have they signed a contract that day ???), tenders, offer sheets (and it specifically says "until player is signed to a player contract"), grievances (you think the player is announcing his future grievance in his contract? LOL), and for about the 3rd time "Any other Salary not listed above paid to players shall be included in Team Salary".

You are just making up that money outside a contract doesn't count against the salary cap. I posted the NFL / NFLPA CBA saying it DOES. In fact it says "A player’s Salary shall also include any and all consideration received by the player or his Player Affiliate from a Club or Club Affiliate, even if such consideration is ostensibly paid to the player for services other than football playing services..."

So how 'bout you posting something to prove your point those monies don't count!

You're not worth any more of my time trying to explain it to you. Remember you are the guy saying rookies aren't included in the salary cap. Do you also not see that practice squad players are?

Have fun learning the rules of the league.

Well, at least we aren't the only team in cap trouble....

Albert Breer ‏@AlbertBreer
10 Ravens account for $69M in 2013 cap space. And that doesn't acct for Flacco, Reed, Ellerbe, Kruger, Dickson, Pitta


Yeah, that's another one ($6.9 mil / player)

When Gettleman begins breaking down the numbers he'll find a Carolina team that has $63.25 million in salary cap space committed to six players — defensive end Charles Johnson ($13 million), Gross ($11.7 million), Gamble ($10.9 million), center Ryan Kalil ($9.95 million), Beason ($9.5 million), and Williams ($8.2 million).

($10.5 mil / player) - ouch !

Quarterback Cam Newton ($6 million), receiver Steve Smith ($5.75 million) and tight end Greg Olsen ($5.7 million) account for an additional $17.5 million in cap space.

So essentially two-thirds — or $80 million — of the team's salary cap is slated to go to nine players.

http://www.gastongaz...ary-cap-1.80085
compensation of any kind has to be accounted for. JR flying Olsen's family up north for a medical emergency isn't something that people are going to make an issue of. paying for a players house would most definitely be something they pay attention to.

it's considered compensation and it most certainly would or should count against the salary cap. if it was something that skirted outside of it it could be reported to the league and that would seriously effect the team in big penalties.

compensation of any kind has to be accounted for. JR flying Olsen's family up north for a medical emergency isn't something that people are going to make an issue of. paying for a players house would most definitely be something they pay attention to.

it's considered compensation and it most certainly would or should count against the salary cap. if it was something that skirted outside of it it could be reported to the league and that would seriously effect the team in big penalties.


Yeah, that is addressed like this:



ARTICLE 13 SALARY CAP ACCOUNTING RULES


(iv) Non-Cash Provisions.
(1) The fair market value of all non-cash provisions (e.g., automobiles, houses, insurance policies) shall be included in Team Salary during the year in which such provision is made. If the parties cannot agree on the fair market value of such provisions, such dispute will be submitted to the Impartial Arbitrator.

- from page 105

(5) Except as provided in Subsections 6(e)(iv)(2)–(4) above, and Article 7 (concerning Rookie Orientation Programs), if any money or tangible item of value is provided by any Club to any player (or his affiliate) not pursuant to this Agreement or a Player Contract, the value of the money or item shall immediately be included in Salary and the Team Salary of the Club making such provision.
- from page 106

When Gettleman begins breaking down the numbers he'll find a Carolina team that has $63.25 million in salary cap space committed to six players — defensive end Charles Johnson ($13 million), Gross ($11.7 million), Gamble ($10.9 million), center Ryan Kalil ($9.95 million), Beason ($9.5 million), and Williams ($8.2 million).


It's even worse when you realize that only 2 of those players really earned that kind of money last year. While we got at least a few good games out of DWill, only CJ and Gross were solid contributors last year.

That is a huge problem.

You're not worth any more of my time trying to explain it to you. Remember you are the guy saying rookies aren't included in the salary cap. Do you also not see that practice squad players are?

Have fun learning the rules of the league.


I even said I probably was wrong on that, was merely a question because I thought it was the case due to the own rookie salary cap or whatever (instead I mistook it for the 51 rule). You are right, sure, you won the argument. Congratulations. But get off your high horse. I never once made that rookie statement come across as a fact. Merely a thought preceded by saying I'm not sure/might be wrong.

I apologize for not being 100% on everything like you are (because you've never gotten anything wrong, apparently), and am sorry I was misinformed.

compensation of any kind has to be accounted for. JR flying Olsen's family up north for a medical emergency isn't something that people are going to make an issue of.


Neither would paying for players gas.
No one is going to say anything or make a stink of JR flying Olsen anywhere for his kids health because that would be a complete PR disaster.
We're gonna have to bite the bullet and cut big name players. We need to wipe the slate clean for our future. That 80 million for 9 players is atrocious. We need to take care of it now, as much as we can, even if it is detrimental.

We're gonna have to bite the bullet and cut big name players. We need to wipe the slate clean for our future. That 80 million for 9 players is atrocious. We need to take care of it now, as much as we can, even if it is detrimental.

Agree. This is what Jerry Richardson meant when he said the organization needed someone who could "fix things".
great thread, good research
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carpantherfan84
Feb 10 2013 02:58 PM
It is really gonna suck this coming year but if we want a perennial playoff caliber team, we are going to lose our "Core" players. Everyone knows this, I got it. But are we as fans really prepared to see Steve, and Gross go? These two individuals have been a big part of how we identify this team. I have been reading a lot of posts on here and we keep dancing around the fact that getting rid of our top 4 or 5 paid players would put us SIGNIFICANTLY below the cap. This means losing some big name people for this team and would likely mean having a horrible season. But maybe not. The colts went through a similar situation and came out smelling like roses. We have an opportunity here. Through trade and cuts we can get well under the cap. It would be painful to us to see either of these to go, but it might actually happen. Ask yourself do you want to stay in this cap mess we are in and still lose? And dont say that we cant afford to lose them. There is not one person on the roster who got us to the playoffs last year and it is highly unlikely that any of them will do so this coming year. That means that there are very few if any that are immune.
I don't think we need to rush the gun cutting Jordan Gross now. We have to release Gamble, then we should let go of Ron Edwards and be under the cap by the March deadline. Then will have a little bit more time to look at restructures before June.
Gross needs to be restructured because he's still not replaceable, but we have Thomas, Munny, and Norman (who will be improved).

I don't think we need to rush the gun cutting Jordan Gross now. We have to release Gamble, then we should let go of Ron Edwards and be under the cap by the March deadline. Then will have a little bit more time to look at restructures before June.
Gross needs to be restructured because he's still not replaceable, but we have Thomas, Munny, and Norman (who will be improved).

Agree w/you on Gross. The guy is no longer elite but he's still a good OT and a valuable member of the team.

I don't think we need to rush the gun cutting Jordan Gross now. We have to release Gamble, then we should let go of Ron Edwards and be under the cap by the March deadline. Then will have a little bit more time to look at restructures before June.
Gross needs to be restructured because he's still not replaceable, but we have Thomas, Munny, and Norman (who will be improved).


You have to be careful if the answer every year to cap issues is "restructuirng". All you are doing is pushing the current problem into future years....which is why we are in the cap hell right now.

I am not advocating that we cut Gross. But, it is a real possibility.