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Everything you need to know about our cap, potential cuts and free agents.

Feb 07 2013 10:30 AM panther4life Carolina Panthers
First of all here are the best links available to help you understand our cap situation and rules.

http://www.eaglescap...alyzingCBA.html (faq on the rules)

http://www.askthecom...laryCap/faq.asp (another faq on the rules)

http://www.spotrac.c...nthers/cap-hit/ (Our cap hits and access to details on every players contract..Click on specific player's full contract to see future cap hits and signing bonus money still counting against the cap in future years)

http://espn.go.com/n...ct-cap-strategy (Every teams updated cap space, except for Giants who have already begun making cuts).

Heres some things you need to know.

Signing bonus- This is guaranteed money players receive as soon as their contract is signed. This money can be and often is spread over the course of a player contracts for up to 5 years. This means the player already has the money but the hit against the cap is spread out. If we cut a player we are no longer responsible for their base salary and owe them nothing. The only deterrent to cutting a player with a large signing bonus is we still have to take the hit against the cap of whatever guaranteed money has not already been accounted for against the cap.

Base Salary- This is the yearly money a player will receive if still on the team, this money and their amortized signing bonus, plus any other workout bonus accounts for our total cap hit.

Dead Money- This refers to money that counts against the cap from players who were cut before their signing bonus has been fully accounted for against the cap.

June 1st cuts- Teams can divide up the remaining dead money or unaccounted for against the cap signing bonus money from players cut over the current year and the next.
*As we did with Wharton last year the new CBA allows for a team to cut up to 2 players before June 1st and still be designated as a June 1st cut, hence allowing a team to spread the hit over 2 years without officially having to wait until June to do so.

March 12th- This is our first deadline to be under the cap(first day of the league year and start of free agency). When we cut down to 53 in September we will have to make sure we are under the cap again.

131.8 Million- This is the amount we are currently have committed to the 2013 cap. The cap is right at 121 Million for 2013.

4,526,462- The amount of the dead money already hitting our cap for 2013. Most of this came from 2 players, Mare(2 Million) and Wharton(1.8 million)

4.5-5 million- The amount our rookie class should roughly count against our cap. (Brockers the 14th overall last year counted 2.164 Million against the rams cap last year, Mychal Kendricks the 46th overall pick last year count just over 1 million against the eagles cap last year thats roughly 3.75 million to our 2 first rounders, plus we'll have a few other picks counting less as well)

Easiest way to calculate for yourself- Go to the spotrac website referenced above. Look at the cap hits and how much remaining signing bonus money we have spread out on each player by clicking on their name. IF you cut that player ignore their base salary and just use the signing bonus money as a cap hit. Choose to spread it out over 1 or 2 years. Keep in mind spreading it out over 2 years can be very helpful but just creates more dead money down the road.


Ways to save without using June 1st rule and piling up dead money for 2014 as well
Cutting Gross would save us 10.7 Million
Cutting Gamble would save us 8.95 million
Cutting Ron Edwards would save us 2.5 million
Cutting Gary Williams would save us 1.125 Million
Cutting Hangartner would save 1.575
Cutting Nakumara would save $967,000


*We could cut other players but if won't save us close to a million no point in fooling with them right now.

**Gross and Gamble should be very easy to restructure as their contracts are almost up and have very little leverage because their remaining signing bonus money to hit the cap is very small(1 Million for Gross and 2 million for Gamble).

Players that would have to be a june 1st cut to save us money this year and by default next year too, but will cause dead money to be on the books in 2014.
Cutting Beason would have an immediate savings of 3.5 million this year and 6.75 million next year.

Cutting Deangleo would have an immediate savings us of 3.4 million in 13 and 4.4 million in 2014. Cutting D-will will also create another 4.6 million in dead money for 2014, because he has a total of 9.6 million in signing bonus scheduled to hit the cap over the next 3 years.

Further reading on Beason situation.
Something has to be done here because not only does he have a large cap hit for 13(9.5 million) it goes up to 10.75 in 2014 and 11.75 in 2015. Since he has 12 million in signing bonus money scheduled to hit the books over the next 3 years( 4 million a year) if we cut him now it would require an immediate hit of the full 12 million. That is more than his current cap hit of 9.5 million if we keep him. Therefore if were going to cut him it makes more sense to do it as a june 1st cut if looking for the cap relief for this year. However if Gettleman can get us under the cap without making him a june 1st cut 2014 will have a much better outlook as we won't have 6 million in dead money already committed to the books.

Further reading on Deangleo Williams situation.

Cutting D-will will also create another 4.6 million in dead money for 2014, because he has a total of 9.6 million in signing bonus scheduled to hit the cap over the next 3 years. If we can bite the bullet on him for this year and hold off on cutting him until next year it would be much more ideal from a fiscal sense. If we cut him next year we can do it before June 1st and still save 2.8 million without carrying over dead money into 2015.

1 other wildcard here would be James Anderson but much like Deangleo if you look at his contract it makes much more sense to wait another year on him .http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/james-anderson.

In summary it looks nice and pretty to cut Gamble and Gross but because they have little signing bonus money yet to hit the cap, it provides us a good leverage in negotiating a restructure or small extension. On the flip side someone like Beason who has 12 million in signing bonus money yet to hit our cap has the upper hand on us in regards to not renegotiating if does not want to. I just think much like Wharton, Beason's time is up because we have drafted his much cheaper replacement.

Heres our 2013 Unrestricted Free Agents
Dwan Edwards
Jordan Senn
Antwan Applewhite
Captain Munnerlyn
Louis Murphy
Sherrod Martin
Ben Hartstock
Gary Barnidge
Mike Pollack
Derek Anderson

Restricted Free Agents
Jason Phillips
Nate Ness
Richie Brockel
Andre Neblett

**also something to keep in mind is that Hardy will be a free agent next year and Cam the following year. Both these players are on pace to demand larger contracts so we need to cut back on the trend of doing june 1st cuts and carrying "dead money" over as much as possible so we can retain them.

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175 Comments

:: before


But he's a pretty good offensive mind. I think Chud is pretty good, but understand the frustration.


I think to a large degree, knowing when to run vs pass and situational playcalling makes an OC great. A lot of the rest comes down to simply having the talent and them executing.

Chud is horrible at situational playcalling.....he was greatly aided IMO by Cam. Chud recycled a lot of Norv's trickplays that where given to him by Norv's son. That sportscenter junk overhyped him IMO. Chud was a trainwreck to start both 2011 and 2012...and was poo his last year in Clev.

Which is why I am not as hard on Shula yet....he has never had talent. Lots of great coaches have sucked when they had no talent.

So how much would we save this season if Beason is a June 1st cut?


Seen different answers, but I'll take my stab at it.

$20,000,00 SB (6 yr contract, but 5 yr max spread) = $4,000,00 per year cap hit x 3 years left = $12,000,000 yet to go / 2 (if June 1) = $6,000,000 per year.

$6,000,000 + $3,750,000 (paid in 2013 guaranteed) = $9,750,000 2013 cap hit.
$6,000,000 dead cap hit in 2014.

$9,750,000 vs $9,500,000 is worse.

So how much would we save this season if Beason is a June 1st cut?

Seen different answers, but I'll take my stab at it.

$20,000,00 SB (6 yr contract, but 5 yr max spread) = $4,000,00 per year cap hit x 3 years left = $12,000,000 yet to go / 2 (if June 1) = $6,000,000 per year.

$6,000,000 + $3,750,000 (paid in 2013 guaranteed) = $9,750,000 2013 cap hit.
$6,000,000 dead cap hit in 2014.

$9,750,000 vs $9,500,000 is worse.


The way I calculated it, which can be found in the OP is we would save 3.5 million in 13 as a June 1st cut. If we didn't want to carry over 6 mlllion dead money in 2014 then it would be a cap hit of 12 million all once. The 12 million is 2.5 more than the scheduled 9.5 million cap hit he accounts for this year. So basically save 3.5 this year as a June 1st cut or pay an additional 2.5 million than planned but we'd have no dead money in 14 for his contract.
Again, you can't avoid the $3.75 mil hit in 2013. The remaining guaranteed hit is $15.75 mil, not $12 mil.

So with a new GM in place, does it look like it'll only take a couple of offseasons to be rid of most of these horrible Hurney contracts? Seems like if we go with your suggestions, we'll be in decent cap shape by the time we need to pay Cam and Hardy. Does that seem accurate?


This is my best guess. Probably take two years to get out from under some of Hurney's stupidity.
Awesome.

Here is my question for you. Is it possible for D'Will and Beason to renegoitate their contracts without affecting the future cap situation?

I would think both of these guys want to stay. Beason has had free money for two years. I have no doubt he will come back strong in 2013. If we could somehow renegotiate his contract similiar to T. Davis then maybe we could work it out. Most teams aren't going to throw the bank at a player that has played less then 10 games in 2 years. So we might have some leverage there.

DeAngelo, I would love to see stay. I believe 2013 is going to be a monster year for him. Regardless of where he may go. If he has to go wouldn't a trade be possible? He still has a couple of years left on his current contract. If we trade him doesn't his signing bonus go with him? If Not, are we stuck with his bonus for 2013 cap? Or can it be spread out over a couple of years.

Thanks

P4L you should be an assist for our new GM.

As far as Shula is concerned. I think the circus that Chudz carried us through won't occur. I think he has a better understanding of Cam and his abilities and how to use him than Chudz did. I believe Chudz was so overwhelmed with his toy that he figured anything he did would work.

Shula seems to me to be a little bit more intelligent and has the pedigree to know how to use a commodity like Cam.

.

DeAngelo, I would love to see stay. I believe 2013 is going to be a monster year for him. Regardless of where he may go. If he has to go wouldn't a trade be possible? He still has a couple of years left on his current contract. If we trade him doesn't his signing bonus go with him? If Not, are we stuck with his bonus for 2013 cap? Or can it be spread out over a couple of years.


No the signing bonus has already been paid, and you don't get to trade it. Once cut or traded you take the hit that is left.

So with a new GM in place, does it look like it'll only take a couple of offseasons to be rid of most of these horrible Hurney contracts? Seems like if we go with your suggestions, we'll be in decent cap shape by the time we need to pay Cam and Hardy. Does that seem accurate?


Yea the ability is there. Hurney had a plan in mind and things would not seem so terrible if we actually lived up to the preseason hype of Kaili and many fans(myself included).

Unfortunately nobody saw Chud going full retard and Rivera not learning from his mistakes in his rookie year.

Its hard to say exactly where things went wrong for this franchise. Upon the arrival of the Hurney/Fox combo we rebounded from being the worst team in franchise history and showed some promise in 2002. In 03 we followed up on that promise and made the Super Bowl.

In 2004 the injury bug demolished us, it really did.

Then in 05 everything was back on track and we made it to the NFC Championship after going 11-5 in the regular season.

2006..."It is what it is", starts getting a little old. Foxball starts to lose its luster and we go a ho hum 8-8. Jenkins became more vocal about this the next year and eventually was wholesaled away to the jets because of it.

2007- Was a screwed up year. "Tommy Jone" anyone? David Carr and his white gloves, Vinny T pulls a Favre, etc.

2008- This is where panic mode sets in and everything goes down hill. We drafted Stewart and traded for Otah 6 picks later so that we can play Foxball at its finest. Worked out great during the regular season as we ran the hell over everybody. Then we had to play from behind and Jake goes into gunslinger mode...you know the rest.

***Timeout*** Fox asked for an extension, JR declined. Said he wanted more consistency,specifically back to back winning seasons. Fug that noise. We should have cleaned housed and started over right now(rebuilding).

2009-So with the pressure on Fox/Hurney and no 1st round pick(Otah) poo goes wrong, very wrong. Peppers already wanted out at this point, as I assume he soured on Foxball much like Jenkins did. Peppers would have been a devastating loss for Fox/Hurney who are no longer thinking long term, they just want to save their jobs for another year. So they Franchise the bastard at an ungodly amount. There was no free agent QB that would have been an upgrade over Jake, so his agent capitalizes and proceeds to rape us. We go all defense and a running back and a fullback in the draft to fully support Foxball. Of course the writing was already on the wall with Peppers so we had to find his replacement and failed miserabley at that when we drafted Everette Brown.

2010- Jerry beings work on his piechart and decides its not cost effective to part ways with Fox when he has a year left on his contract. Meanwhile Hurney's only task is to purge the roster of any high priced vet's and is not allowed to extend anyone after the Delhomme failure. Matt Moore is the starting qb and Steve Smith starts interviewing realtors, what could possibly wrong?

2011- Jerry says Hurney go resign everybody and show the world I'm not cheap. Welcome to cap hell and the world record for moral victories in a season.

2012- Cut back on pipe if you need a recap here.

13-???

Again, you can't avoid the $3.75 mil hit in 2013. The remaining guaranteed hit is $15.75 mil, not $12 mil.


Where are you getting this 3.75 from? http://www.spotrac.c...ers/jon-beason/

If you look that over there 12 million in signing bonus or guaranteed money unpaid. Signing bonus is the only guaranteed money.
some good sh*t in this thread

Seen different answers, but I'll take my stab at it.

$20,000,00 SB (6 yr contract, but 5 yr max spread) = $4,000,00 per year cap hit x 3 years left = $12,000,000 yet to go / 2 (if June 1) = $6,000,000 per year.

$6,000,000 + $3,750,000 (paid in 2013 guaranteed) = $9,750,000 2013 cap hit.
$6,000,000 dead cap hit in 2014.

$9,750,000 vs $9,500,000 is worse.



Correct.

Beason get's that 3.75 Million no matter what the team does. His dead money for this season would include that amount.


To the OP, Sport trac doesn't show that amount he's owed and is wrong on a few other contracts as well because they don't show years with guaranteed money owed.


Also June 1st cut's don't help the team get under the cap as the money isn't available till the 1st of June.


You can see Beason's full contract here by clicking contract details.

http://www.rotoworld...4192/jon-beason

7/29/2011: Signed a six-year, $51.338 million contract. The deal contains $25 million guaranteed -- a $20 million signing bonus, Beason's first two base salaries, and $3.75 million of his 2013 salary. 2013: $5.25 million, 2014: $6.5 million, 2015: $7.5 million, 2016: $8.75 million, 2017: Free Agent





Edit: I forgot to add this earlier.


The above numbers for cap hits aren't correct though. With how the June 1st cut works is that Beason's Singing Bonus dead money would be spread over the two years as follows

4 million this season
8 million next season.

Which leaves the team with the following dead money from Beason's contract.

2013 - 7.75m dead money
2014 - 8m dead money


Saving the team as follows over the two years


2013 - 1.25 million in savings
2014 - 2.75 million in savings


Total savings of 4 million.


DeAngelo Williams contract would break down in a similar fashion with 9.6 million being spread over the two years using the NFL's June 1st cap rules.

3.2 million in dead money for 2013
6.4 million in dead money for 2014


2013 - 5 million in savings.
2014 - 2.8 million in savings.



You get those numbers by subtracting the dead money from that player's cap hit in that year.




Example

Williams has a cap hit of 9.2 Million next season, if you subtract his dead money from that you get 2.8 million in savings.




So if the team decides to cut Williams and Beason and designate them as June 1st cuts the team will save 11.8 Million over the next two years with dead money from those two combining for 7.2 million in dead money this season and 14.4 Million in the 2014 season.

Where are you getting this 3.75 from? http://www.spotrac.c...ers/jon-beason/

If you look that over there 12 million in signing bonus or guaranteed money unpaid. Signing bonus is the only guaranteed money.

Dude, from the contract he and Hurney negotiated.

"Add the fact that former GM Marty Hurney structured contracts that includes years where portions of a player's base salary is guaranteed on top of their bonus money (e.g. $3.75 million of Beason's 2013 base salary), the cap benefits of cutting any of these players doesn't match the cost of losing talent. Guaranteed money always counts against the cap, and Hurney gave out a lot of guaranteed money."

Jon Beason, LB
Four years remaining on a six-year, $51.388 million dollar contract, $25 million guaranteed money
2013 Cap Figure: $9.5 million; Cap savings if cut: None, cap figure will increase by $6.25 million to $15.75 million

http://www.catscratchreader.com/2013/1/27/3922826/the-salary-cap-situation

7/29/2011: Signed a six-year, $51.338 million contract. The deal contains $25 million guaranteed -- a $20 million signing bonus, Beason's first two base salaries, and $3.75 million of his 2013 salary. 2013: $5.25 million, 2014: $6.5 million, 2015: $7.5 million, 2016: $8.75 million, 2017: Free Agent

http://www.rotoworld...4192/jon-beason
just another site to muddy the water re: beason's contract
http://www.overtheca...B&Team=Panthers

Year 2013
Base Salary $5,250,000
Prorated Bonus $4,000,000
Roster Bonus $0
Workout Bonus $250,000
Other Bonus $0
Cap Number $9,500,000
Dead Money $12,000,000
Cap Savings ($2,500,000)

Year 2014
Base Salary $6,500,000
Prorated Bonus $4,000,000
Roster Bonus $0
Workout Bonus $250,000
Other Bonus $0
Cap Number $10,750,000
Dead Money $8,000,000
Cap Savings $2,750,000

Year 2015
Base Salary $7,500,000
Prorated Bonus $4,000,000
Roster Bonus $0
Workout Bonus $250,000
Other Bonus $0
Cap Number $11,750,000
Dead Money $4,000,000
Cap Savings $7,750,000

Year 2016
Base Salary $8,750,000
Prorated Bonus $0
Roster Bonus $0
Workout Bonus $250,000
Other Bonus $0
Cap Number $9,000,000
Dead Money $0
Cap Savings $9,000,000

Where are you getting this 3.75 from? http://www.spotrac.c...ers/jon-beason/

If you look that over there 12 million in signing bonus or guaranteed money unpaid. Signing bonus is the only guaranteed money.


$3.75m of the $5.75m base salary was guaranteed as part of Beason's signing bonus:

7/29/2011: Signed a six-year, $51.338 million contract. The deal contains $25 million guaranteed -- a $20 million signing bonus, Beason's first two base salaries, and $3.75 million of his 2013 salary. 2013: $5.25 million, 2014: $6.5 million, 2015: $7.5 million, 2016: $8.75 million, 2017: Free Agent


http://www.rotoworld...4192/jon-beason

edit: whoops, should have hit "next page" to see I was beaten like a drum on this :|

Ways to save without using June 1st rule and piling up dead money for 2014 as well
Cutting Gross would save us 10.7 Million
Cutting Gamble would save us 8.95 million
Cutting Ron Edwards would save us 2.5 million
Cutting Gary Williams would save us 1.125 Million
Cutting Hangartner would save 1.575
Cutting Nakumara would save $967,000


My body is ready.

just another site to muddy the water re: beason's contract
http://www.overtheca...B&Team=Panthers

Year 2013
Base Salary $5,250,000
Prorated Bonus $4,000,000
Roster Bonus $0
Workout Bonus $250,000
Other Bonus $0
Cap Number $9,500,000
Dead Money $12,000,000
Cap Savings ($2,500,000)

Year 2014
Base Salary $6,500,000
Prorated Bonus $4,000,000
Roster Bonus $0
Workout Bonus $250,000
Other Bonus $0
Cap Number $10,750,000
Dead Money $8,000,000
Cap Savings $2,750,000

Year 2015
Base Salary $7,500,000
Prorated Bonus $4,000,000
Roster Bonus $0
Workout Bonus $250,000
Other Bonus $0
Cap Number $11,750,000
Dead Money $4,000,000
Cap Savings $7,750,000

Year 2016
Base Salary $8,750,000
Prorated Bonus $0
Roster Bonus $0
Workout Bonus $250,000
Other Bonus $0
Cap Number $9,000,000
Dead Money $0
Cap Savings $9,000,000


That site is awesome, thanks Rayzor. He even has a sortable table to see how much you could save by cutting any player on the roster. Granted it does not show the savings of a June 1st cut but still.

Here's the chart I was talking about http://www.overtheca...thers&Year=2013
Once again the problem with that site is that it doesn't include guaranteed money owed to the players. It is a nice site though, would be even better if they factored that sort of stuff into the equation though.

I just added this to my above post as I forgot to add it earlier and it's pretty important to the discussion about June 1st cuts.



The above numbers for cap hits aren't correct though. With how the June 1st cut works is that Beason's Singing Bonus dead money would be spread over the two years as follows

4 million this season
8 million next season.

Which leaves the team with the following dead money from Beason's contract.

2013 - 7.75m dead money
2014 - 8m dead money


Saving the team as follows over the two years


2013 - 1.25 million in savings
2014 - 2.75 million in savings


Total savings of 4 million.


DeAngelo Williams contract would break down in a similar fashion with 9.6 million being spread over the two years using the NFL's June 1st cap rules.

3.2 million in dead money for 2013
6.4 million in dead money for 2014


2013 - 5 million in savings.
2014 - 2.8 million in savings.



You get those numbers by subtracting the dead money from that player's cap hit in that year.




Example

Williams has a cap hit of 9.2 Million next season, if you subtract his dead money from that you get 2.8 million in savings.




So if the team decides to cut Williams and Beason and designate them as June 1st cuts the team will save 11.8 Million over the next two years with dead money from those two combining for 7.2 million in dead money this season and 14.4 Million in the 2014 season.
Just a couple of clarifications on the original post:

1) Signing bonuses are spread over the first 5 years of a contract, not 6.
2) Draft picks count at the rookie minimum until they sign their deals (typically late summer), so they have little impact on the cap until post June 1st.
3) For most of the offseason, only the top 51 players count against the cap.

And just to elaborate on one other point...when you visit a site like Spotrac, be sure to look at guaranteed money as well as signing bonus. For example, if a player had $20 million guaranteed in their contract, and received a signing bonus of $15 million, they still have $5 million remaining that is guaranteed. If they are going into the 3rd year of their deal, and their salaries the first 2 years were $1 million each, they still have at least $3 million left in guaranteed dollars (maybe more depending on how the deal is structured).
What of the optional 3.6 million 2012 carry over money? I posted a thread on it last night.

What of the optional 3.6 million 2012 carry over money? I posted a thread on it last night.



Puts the Panther's at 12.4 million over the cap (roughly), needing to get at least 5 million under the cap for draft picks, then another 4-5 million under to fill out the roster "right now if the Panther's cut enough people to get under plus FA's they'd have about 20 roster spots to fill.)


So the Panther's need to shed at least 17.4 million off the payroll. The team would need to shed around 21-24 million to get a few key mid level FA guys plus Draft picks and udfa guys in to fill out a full team of 55 players.

needing to get at least 5 million under the cap for draft picks,


Wrong.....

See my post on page two regarding this.

Wrong.....

See my post on page two regarding this.



Let just say that the Panther's are definitely going to need over 3 million for the draft picks even with the top 51 rule and that's before they cut players to get under the cap. They'll have to cut around 6 players to get under that's not named Williams or Beason. Which with the roster setup on the Panther's right now would push that number up towards 4 million that they would need to sign the rookies.

1st pick is going to cost 1.5 million against the cap, with the top 51 rule in place.
2nd pick is going to cost 600-700k against the cap, with the top 51 rule in place.
3rd picks is going to cost around 150-200k against the cap with the top 51 rule in place.
the other picks are going to cost around 20k-60k each based on the round and singing bonus.


around 2-3 million even with the top 51 rule in place. Picks in rounds 4-7 make 480k plus signing bonus with that bonus ranging from 120k to 15k depending on the round. First round pick will knock someone off making less the 500k plus have a signing bonus on top of that. They'll end up making close to 3 million counting both. 2nd round pick will end up making over 1 million dollars counting signing bonus. Those numbers are based on last years numbers.

Now if the Panther's cut 5-6 players that puts players currently making less then 480k into the top 51 making the amount needed even higher.


This year drafted Rookies will earn around 500k or so, with the minimum being 420k, last year the only players on the Panther's making the minimum of 405k was UDFA. The other players earned 480k. The Panther's currently have around 5-6 players making league minimum for players this upcoming season that will get knocked into the top 51 based on cuts.


If you go by last years draft class with a look at the Panther's 2013 roster, all of the Panther's 2013 draft picks after cuts will be in the top 51.
Well done. thank you.

I still don't know why we paid Beason BEFORE that injury was worked out.



Did the same thing with Dan Morgan.....go figure

Best post I have seen for some time...great job!

We also have draft picks to sign....so I think we need to get down even more to have room to sign them.


I could very well be wrong on this but I believe that rookies no longer count against the team salary cap.