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If Kenjon Barner shows competence, is Deangelo gone on June 1?

May 07 2013 08:15 AM Zod Carolina Panthers
Kenjon Barner is a wiry 5'9 and 196 which is a good contrast to Stewart. His running style is more like Deangelo's than Jonathan, relying more on being elusive than powering through the defense.

The biggest knocks on Barner coming out was his propensity to run high and cut to the outside too much instead of taking it between the tackles.

Fast Forward to May practices outside of Bank of America Stadium.

Jim Skipper is once again the running backs coach. If he sees progress with Barner will that push the Deangelo cap issue to the forefront? How much progress will need to be seen?

For instance, lets say they coach him into running lower relatively easily. This shows real promise that he will improve as a prospect throughout camp. Some running backs NEVER learn to run lower (Eric Shelton).

So if he shows at least some real progress in just a few weeks, would that be enough to cut Deangelo Williams and save millions?

Do you think the friendship between Jim Skipper and Deangelo Williams effects his judgement or will Gettleman not allow personal feelings to be involved?

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:: before

You are missing the point. DWill has no guaranteed money left on his deal. Zero.

The 3.2 million a year for the next 3 years was paid to him in a lump sum 2 years ago when he signed his deal.

If we cut his base pay to zero, his earnings this year are zero.

Paid for future years, spread out as a cap hit evenly over the contract.
But I see what you're saying....I still think here's some pay cut that may work out, but it would have to be something silly low, such as 1 mil base pay per year.

Again I'm not talking about renegotiating, I'm talking about a paycut. Yes, he'd make the 9.75 mil remaining guaranteed regardless, but I don't think it's all about the money for some players. He may demand a 1 mil per year base pay but that wouldn't ensure he stays on the team.


Read this carefully. One more time. The 9.6 million was given to him as part of his signing bonus 2 years ago. Maybe he used it to buy a house, or maybe he invested it, but in any case he already has had it for 2 years. We are not obligated to pay him anything else other than his base salary, and that only is a sure thing once he plays in the first game of the year. So if we cut his base salary to say 1 million a year, that is all he is going to be paid this year. Do you think DWill agrees to play here for 1 million a year?

I don't know how else to explain it.

Read this carefully. One more time. The 9.6 million was given to him as part of his signing bonus 2 years ago. Maybe he used it to buy a house, or maybe he invested it, but in any case he already has had it for 2 years. We are not obligated to pay him anything else other than his base salary, and that only is a sure thing once he plays in the first game of the year. So if we cut his base salary to say 1 million a year, that is all he is going to be paid this year. Do you think DWill agrees to play here for 1 million a year?

I don't know how else to explain it.

I understand quite well and yes, I think it's plausible he plays for veteran minimum. I've listed many reasons why. Money isn't everything to some players. He's already a rich man.

one game distorts an awful lot...going into week 17, williams averaged 3.5ypc


And going into week 17 Stewart was in street clothes so what's your point? 200 yards is 200 yards Idc who you put it up against.

What type of competence can be shown by June 1? And I still don't think it's beneficial to cut him cap wise. I don't think alot of people understand that. Thus, another gif approved thread.

What type of competence can be shown by June 1? And I still don't think it's beneficial to cut him cap wise. I don't think alot of people understand that. Thus, another gif approved thread.

This year not so much, next year no way he plays for us with that contract.
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Way Truth Life
May 09 2013 09:32 AM
According to the Charlotte Observer, the "one or two teams" that called the Panthers about DeAngelo Williams prior to last year's NFL trade deadline "weren't offering much."
Williams has a big salary and declining ability, and he turned 30 in April. It's not surprising the Panthers were unable to get anything for him. Rookie GM Dave Gettleman was recently noncommittal on Williams' 2013 roster spot. The Panthers would take a cap hit to release Williams, and probably wouldn't even consider it until they see rookie Kenjon Barner perform well in padded practices. May 5 - 12:26 PM

We can correct the running style and the fumble-itis, and pass protection.

 

 

 

 

can somebody tell me again why we drafted this guy and why besides money he is a better option than delo?

can somebody tell me again why we drafted this guy and why besides money he is a better option than delo?

 

he just turned 24, Williams just turned 30.

 

he has spent his entire career playing in a "Newton" friendly offense, Williams is more a square peg in a round hole.

 

but why do you need answers outside of a backup taking up 8 million in cap space?

the fumble-itis tag may be uncalled for. as a...

 

freshman - 69 touches, 4 fumbles

sophomore - 104 touches, 4 fumbles

junior - 169 touches, 3 fumbles

senior - 298 touches, 1 fumble

 

not saying he is or isn't over it, but he is definitely showing upside in that area.

I understand quite well and yes, I think it's plausible he plays for veteran minimum. I've listed many reasons why. Money isn't everything to some players. He's already a rich man.

 

Eh, I don't see it happening. The Panthers have no leverage in any negotiation, we'd be relying solely on the idea that he's such an unselfish person that he'll willingly give up millions and get nothing back. If he wanted to do that, it would already have happened. Money is respect in these negotiations. There's an emotional component.

the fumble-itis tag may be uncalled for. as a...

freshman - 69 touches, 4 fumbles
sophomore - 104 touches, 4 fumbles
junior - 169 touches, 3 fumbles
senior - 298 touches, 1 fumble

not saying he is or isn't over it, but he is definitely showing upside in that area.


His fumbling issue was a fielding kick issue...which doesn't really translate to ball security as a runner

Eh, I don't see it happening. The Panthers have no leverage in any negotiation, we'd be relying solely on the idea that he's such an unselfish person that he'll willingly give up millions and get nothing back. If he wanted to do that, it would already have happened. Money is respect in these negotiations. There's an emotional component.


Panthers have tons of leverage. They simply don't need him...a luxury and Williams knows it.

All a matter of when they choose to talk about it

Panthers have tons of leverage. They simply don't need him...a luxury and Williams knows it.

All a matter of when they choose to talk about it


Exactly. We cut him, and he sits at home until someone gives him a call.

No one is going to offer DWill what his contract calls for, so he could either take a significant cut and stay here or take his chances on the open market. He would clearly get offers as the guy can still play, but I don't see anyone offering him $4 to $5 million a year.

Exactly. We cut him, and he sits at home until someone gives him a call.

No one is going to offer DWill what his contract calls for, so he could either take a significant cut and stay here or take his chances on the open market. He would clearly get offers as the guy can still play, but I don't see anyone offering him $4 to $5 million a year.


Yep, does a 30 yr old RB want to uproot his family?

A legit paycut IMO should already be being discussed as we talk on the subject....then a June 1 cut if it doesn't go down

Kenjon Barner is a wiry 5'9 and 196 which is a good contrast to Stewart. His running style is more like Deangelo's than Jonathan, relying more on being elusive than powering through the defense.

The biggest knocks on Barner coming out was his propensity to run high and cut to the outside too much instead of taking it between the tackles.

Fast Forward to May practices outside of Bank of America Stadium.

Jim Skipper is once again the running backs coach. If he sees progress with Barner will that push the Deangelo cap issue to the forefront? How much progress will need to be seen?

For instance, lets say they coach him into running lower relatively easily. This shows real promise that he will improve as a prospect throughout camp. Some running backs NEVER learn to run lower (Eric Shelton).

So if he shows at least some real progress in just a few weeks, would that be enough to cut Deangelo Williams and save millions?

Do you think the friendship between Jim Skipper and Deangelo Williams effects his judgement or will Gettleman not allow personal feelings to be involved?


Yes, yes he is.

Eh, I don't see it happening. The Panthers have no leverage in any negotiation, we'd be relying solely on the idea that he's such an unselfish person that he'll willingly give up millions and get nothing back. If he wanted to do that, it would already have happened. Money is respect in these negotiations. There's an emotional component.

He truly may not want to uproot his family and play elsewhere for only a mil or so more per season

In this scenario
1) he still earns close to 1 mil per year
2)gets to play the game he loves most
3) completes 10 years in the league which gets him a pension (if he plays 3 more years)

I'm not saying its promising, but there's definitely a chance.

The biggest knocks on Barner coming out was his propensity to run high and cut to the outside too much instead of taking it between the tackles.

That's the same thing a lot of people said about Barry Sanders... Just saying.

That's the same thing a lot of people said about Barry Sanders... Just saying.

 

Are there more Eric Sheltons or Barry Sanders drafted?

Are there more Eric Sheltons or Barry Sanders drafted?

you're talking about the two extremes of legendary.

I would want to see him play in a few regular season games before I decide if he's an adequate replacement for DeAngelo. 

Panthers have tons of leverage. They simply don't need him...a luxury and Williams knows it.

All a matter of when they choose to talk about it

 

He just signed a long-term deal with a ton of guaranteed money. The guarantees take away Carolina's leverage. He doesn't have to take a paycut, he can just let the Panthers cut him, take his checks, and go sign another contract elsewhere. Steven Jackson just got $12 million from the Falcons, with a $3.5 million dollar bonus.

 

Let's say your boss says that you can quit your job and still get paid. You also have the option to take another job and get paid twice. Moving is a hassle, but you're telling me an extra $10 million over the life of his next contract wouldn't entice him? He's human, and you're fooling yourself if you think he's going to willingly walk away from all that money.

He truly may not want to uproot his family and play elsewhere for only a mil or so more per season

In this scenario
1) he still earns close to 1 mil per year
2)gets to play the game he loves most
3) completes 10 years in the league which gets him a pension (if he plays 3 more years)

I'm not saying its promising, but there's definitely a chance.

 

He can do 2 and 3 somewhere else if he wants, and can earn a whole lot more than $1 million per year. If he really doesn't care about money, he can take his pick of contenders next year and go for a Super Bowl. I bet John Fox would take him back, and DeAngelo probably wouldn't hate playing with Peyton Manning.

 

How do you go from saying 'only a mil or so more' to deciding that a million is totally adequate for the man?

Look at the inverse.  If we cut him this year on a June 1st cut we'll owe half of his 9.6 bonues money.  That's 4.8 in dead money this year.  Right now with bonus and salery for this year he's making 8.2.

 

If we cut him we free up 3.4 million for his year.

 

So, if Williams was a free agent and offerered to play for us on a one year 3.4 million dollar contract, would you sign him?

Look at the inverse.  If we cut him this year on a June 1st cut we'll owe half of his 9.6 bonues money.  That's 4.8 in dead money this year.  Right now with bonus and salery for this year he's making 8.2.

 

If we cut him we free up 3.4 million for his year.

 

So, if Williams was a free agent and offerered to play for us on a one year 3.4 million dollar contract, would you sign him?

 

straight up salary, 1 year deal 3.4 million.....everything else about his contract, etc. thrown out the window?

 

No, 3.4 million is too much for a backup RB in this offense.