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Ted Ginn joins the Panthers on a one-year deal

Mar 21 2013 04:06 PM Cam2Ligit2Quit Carolina Panthers
Former 49ers wide receiver Ted Ginn Jr. signed a one-year deal with the Carolina Panthers, ESPN reported Thursday, ending his three-year tenure in San Francisco.
Ginn had only two receptions in 2012 and ceded his kickoff-return duties to rookie LaMichael James late in the regular season, but he remained effective as a punt returner. He was 11th in the NFL in punt-return average (11.2 yards) after ranking fourth and third, respectively, the previous two seasons.
In the Super Bowl, Ginn's 32-yard third-quarter punt return set up a 20-yard touchdown drive in the midst of San Francisco's second-half rally.


Read more: http://www.sfgate.co...p#ixzz2OGdEMh5Y



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384 Comments

:: before


I think we will have more signings after June 1st...

And again all I get from you is opinion no stats. 89 was triple and double covered some times but he was always open from your view.

I bring stats to this debate can you please do the same.


Yeah, you brought stats. Stats that don't really prove anything. Bottom line: The stats prove my argument which is that LaFell doesn't have the production of top WR2s in the league, much less a WR1-2 hybrid. Your stats are really not even relevant to the argument IMO, just some convoluted rationale to over hype and over value a guy that has proven to be mediocre. But don't worry, Gettleman is going to up the game, which will ultimately prove everything that I have said (not that you really need any more proof).
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koolkatluke
Mar 22 2013 03:26 PM

Yeah, you brought stats. Stats that don't really prove anything. Bottom line: The stats prove my argument which is that LaFell doesn't have the production of top WR2s in the league, much less a WR1-2 hybrid. Your stats are really not even relevant to the argument IMO, just some convoluted rationale to over hype and over value a guy that has proven to be mediocre. But don't worry, Gettleman is going to up the game, which will ultimately prove everything that I have said (not that you really need any more proof).


No your not being rational.

1. You refuse to notice the pattern of no #2 in a option type Offense putting up great numbers.

2. You refuse to add in the fact of Olsen and Tolbert taking away touches from lafell.

3. You also refuse to see that Smith didn't put up great numbers this year either.

All you have is this opinion that Lafell wasn't getting open and he is a sub par Wr. Again with no stats or film to back that up.
It is officially official.

Panthers sign WR Ginn
Santana Moss 41 receptions, 573 yards and 8TDs > LaFell's 44, 677, and 4 (and he's not even a starter).
Pierre Garcon who had a bad foot had numbers similar to LaFell, 44, 633 and 4.
The Leonard Hankerson, WR extraordinaire (sarcasm), even put up 38, 543 and 3 on 19 less targets.

Blame it on the read option all you want. That's really the only argument that you can cling onto at this point,. LaFell really had the the same or less impact of an old guy who was not a starter, and a guy on a bad foot can equal the production of your prized WR2. He was a little better than another guy who was not a starter, but who arguably was supposed to have his break out year also, but turned out to be a mediocre WR just like LaFell. Like I said, the stats really just prove what I've been saying all along. Moreover, if I had film of LaFell, I would have to bring my pillow because I'd probably fall asleep. It would be named The Disappearing Man.

Regarding Olsen and Tolbert, I already answered it, but let me make it simple: Good players rise to the occasion, so LaFell is not going to get a pass because he doesn't warrant more attention because of his inability to get open and make a great impact upon the game. Oh, he is a mediocre WR whose job is to catch the ball, but because he doesn't do his job as effectively as more than a few others, he loses touches to the TE and the FB. OK.

Smith's numbers were still decent, notwithstanding the fact that LaFell couldn't break out and command the attention of defenses.
I'm confused by all the love for Ginn and I admittedly know nothing about him.

But he was not used as a WR at all last year and lost his KR job (but kept his PR job). He will not have any chance to have the PR success he had last year until we have a better ST supporting cast.

Doesn't seem like much of a story except that he is probably a decent value. What am I missing?
This is quite the opposite of the sentiment here. Hopefully it stays this way about him.

I'm confused by all the love for Ginn and I admittedly know nothing about him.

But he was not used as a WR at all last year and lost his KR job (but kept his PR job). He will not have any chance to have the PR success he had last year until we have a better ST supporting cast.

Doesn't seem like much of a story except that he is probably a decent value. What am I missing?


Ted Ginn was drafted as the #4 receiver at the time in 2007. He was known to have good hands so the case of dropsies only started to happen towards the end of his time in Miami. I think he has all the physical tools as an athlete to succeed in the NFL. He has the ability to play both sides of the ball as he has played QB, WR, RB and CB in his lifetime.

His biggest issues has to be in his head. He needs to gain confidence because if he can consistently catch the ball, he can be a very very dangerous man.

Here was his scouting analysis back in 2007:

Positives: Has outstanding quickness, agility and balance … Gets to top speed in a hurry and maintains acceleration throughout his routes … Has that quick second gear burst as a returner to take the ball to the house consistently (six touchdowns on punt returns, two touchdowns on kickoffs) … Good team leader who responds to discipline and with his work ethic, you won't need to monitor him … Once he gets into his patterns, he is quick to gobble up the cushion … If given a free lane to operate, Ginn is certain to find the seams … On deep patterns, he has that extra burst needed to run by defenders and is very effective at making the over-the-shoulder grabs … The thing you see on film is his ability to get down the field rapidly … Can track, adjust and jump for the ball much better on long routes than he does when working in a crowd … Given a free lane, Ginn will immediately burst into his routes … Eats up the cushion in an instant and while his lateral agility could improve, he maintains stride on slants and screens … Best served on screens, quick flares, slants or bursting up the seam -- anything that will take advantage of his explosive quickness … Is very quick through transition and has a knack for avoiding second level defenders to find holes in the zone … Lacks double cut agility, but can accelerate suddenly when he drops his pads … Can instantly turn on a defensive back on a route, as he has that extra gear needed to pull away … When he sinks his hips, he transitions fast and accelerates through the cuts to burst away … Might not look fluid in and out of his breaks, but has the ability to separate thanks to a sensational second gear … Has the speed to stretch the field and separate, showing steady acceleration to uncover vs. man coverage … Has a knack for becoming available quickly on the blitz and does a good job of getting his feet down along the sidelines … Carries route depth, sliding to create lanes, but must do a better job of settling when working in traffic … Adjusts readily to man coverage and is alert to finding the soft spot in the deep zone … If given room to operate, he will simply race past a defender … Might not have the strength to break tackles or the lateral agility to redirect, but with his acceleration, he is a dangerous threat with the ball in his hands … His burst makes him too elusive in man coverage, as he always makes the first tackler miss.
Negatives: Has a wiry build with a lean frame, split high with long legs, lacking the bulk or strength to consistently beat press coverage … Plays with suddenness, but lacks the lateral agility to come out of his breaks cleanly and needs to improve his footwork, especially in stop-and-go action … Instinctive returner, but needs to vary his speed when running routes … While he is explosive in the open field, his concentration tends to be a bit inconsistent, as he hears the sounds of the defender's footsteps working over the middle … Must do a better job of securing the ball on receptions before turning up field (will drop a few when he tries to run before grasping the ball … Lacks the strength to power his way through the press and needs to be more active with his hands on release … Must be more alert working underneath for when the quarterback is going to deliver the ball, but does a nice job of looking the throw in over his outside shoulder without having to break stride … Moves well left or right, but shows only adequate hip snap on his lateral moves … When he is up against the press, he tends to take false steps and cocks his arms before firing, but he has enough speed to compensate … Sometimes that speed gets him into trouble, as he runs so fast he might miss a cut or look sloppy trying to plant-and-drive … His cuts look too choppy and he looks tight in his hips making body turns … Looks a little too stiff in his hips when moving laterally, so he is not a great multiple cut runner … Shows very good vision to track the ball in flight, but will struggle some in tough-to-catch spots … Not much of a red-zone threat, as he had only six passes thrown to him in that area through 37 games.

Compares To: DANTE HALL-Kansas City … Like Hall, Ginn appears to be a quality return specialist who can contribute some as a receiver rather than a receiver who can contribute some as a return specialist. He is very effective on quick slants and screens and tracks the ball well over his head, but with his lack of strength and inability to defeat the press, he will struggle to get a clean release and into his routes at the next level. He seems hesitant to go over the middle as a receiver and the sound of the defender's footsteps tends to see him lose concentration. Still, he is an electrifying returner who could bring decent value in multiple receiver formations, as long as you don't ask Ginn to run lateral routes into a crowd.

Ted Ginn was drafted as the #4 receiver at the time in 2007. He was known to have good hands so the case of dropsies only started to happen towards the end of his time in Miami. I think he has all the physical tools as an athlete to succeed in the NFL. He has the ability to play both sides of the ball as he has played QB, WR, RB and CB in his lifetime.

His biggest issues has to be in his head. He needs to gain confidence because if he can consistently catch the ball, he can be a very very dangerous man.

Here was his scouting analysis back in 2007:


So huge potential needs to be developed a bit more mentally?

I'm just reading his history and he was a bust at Miami and traded for a 5th. Then largely a bust in SF.

Seems like a failed project we are taking one more stab at. Hopefully I am wrong.
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koolkatluke
Mar 22 2013 05:41 PM

Santana Moss 41 receptions, 573 yards and 8TDs > LaFell's 44, 677, and 4 (and he's not even a starter).
Pierre Garcon who had a bad foot had numbers similar to LaFell, 44, 633 and 4.
The Leonard Hankerson, WR extraordinaire (sarcasm), even put up 38, 543 and 3 on 19 less targets.

Blame it on the read option all you want. That's really the only argument that you can cling onto at this point,. LaFell really had the the same or less impact of an old guy who was not a starter, and a guy on a bad foot can equal the production of your prized WR2. He was a little better than another guy who was not a starter, but who arguably was supposed to have his break out year also, but turned out to be a mediocre WR just like LaFell. Like I said, the stats really just prove what I've been saying all along. Moreover, if I had film of LaFell, I would have to bring my pillow because I'd probably fall asleep. It would be named The Disappearing Man.

Regarding Olsen and Tolbert, I already answered it, but let me make it simple: Good players rise to the occasion, so LaFell is not going to get a pass because he doesn't warrant more attention because of his inability to get open and make a great impact upon the game. Oh, he is a mediocre WR whose job is to catch the ball, but because he doesn't do his job as effectively as more than a few others, he loses touches to the TE and the FB. OK.

Smith's numbers were still decent, notwithstanding the fact that LaFell couldn't break out and command the attention of defenses.


Again those are not great numbers. That is still the same area as Lafell and Smith were. So you just made my point. The offense didn't give many opportunities for Smith or Lafell to put up numbers.

Smith numbers were well below his avg. He didn't score his 1st TD until half way thru the season. You're full of it lying to yourself like that to downgrade lafell.

Dude I understand you don't like the guy but don't deny the facts.

So huge potential needs to be developed a bit more mentally?

I'm just reading his history and he was a bust at Miami and traded for a 5th. Then largely a bust in SF.

Seems like a failed project we are taking one more stab at. Hopefully I am wrong.


I can't really defend him from being called a bust but i have hope he can be salvaged. Even if he never becomes a WR and remains a threat on ST, it's already a huge upgrade to what we currently have on ST.

His Rookie season, in fairness to Ginn, the QB he received the most passes from was Leo Clemon. To be honest, I cannot actually say I know who the hell he is. The leading receiver on the team in 2007 was Marty Booker with 556 yards.

Chad Pennington came around in 2008 and threw for 3,600 yards that year. Ginn actually led the team that season with 790 yards.

His first year in SF, he was brought in primarily for ST and he played behind Crabtree, Morgan and Davis. Having a bad Alex Smith and Troy Smith throw the ball didn't help either.

Maybe having #89 mentoring him and Cam throwing to him will make him a legit #3 WR. I dunno. But as I said, ST value is great.

I can't really defend him from being called a bust but i have hope he can be salvaged. Even if he never becomes a WR and remains a threat on ST, it's already a huge upgrade to what we currently have on ST.

His Rookie season, in fairness to Ginn, the QB he received the most passes from was Leo Clemon. To be honest, I cannot actually say I know who the hell he is. The leading receiver on the team in 2007 was Marty Booker with 556 yards.

Chad Pennington came around in 2008 and threw for 3,600 yards that year. Ginn actually led the team that season with 790 yards.

His first year in SF, he was brought in primarily for ST and he played behind Crabtree, Morgan and Davis. Having a bad Alex Smith and Troy Smith throw the ball didn't help either.

Maybe having #89 mentoring him and Cam throwing to him will make him a legit #3 WR. I dunno. But as I said, ST value is great.


cool
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carolina-chuck
Mar 22 2013 06:35 PM

Right now Pilares is the #3. Ginn most likely is #4


I'm gonna shoot my brain out. Pilares may not even make the 53 man squad at the end of the day.
For our needs, Lafell fits nicely. Can he be upgraded? Sure he can. But it ain't as easy as some would have you believe.
Guys why only a one year deal? Why not 2 if possible he is only 27 and proven.

Guys why only a one year deal? Why not 2 if possible he is only 27 and proven.

hardly anyone is getting more than one year this year. no reason to give out more. also no money, but that's another story.

most FAs the next couple years are only going to be getting cheap one year deals. if they work out, give them another one. if they don't, you aren't stuck with a contract/player you don't want. surplus of players on the market and an unexpected flat cap and very little money to go around makes it the buyers market it is.
FredLane4Ever
Mar 22 2013 07:58 PM
PJ HAIRSTON IS THE MAN
FredLane4Ever
Mar 22 2013 08:12 PM
Once again PJ HAIRSTON IS THE MAN

Again those are not great numbers. That is still the same area as Lafell and Smith were. So you just made my point. The offense didn't give many opportunities for Smith or Lafell to put up numbers.

Smith numbers were well below his avg. He didn't score his 1st TD until half way thru the season. You're full of it lying to yourself like that to downgrade lafell.

Dude I understand you don't like the guy but don't deny the facts.


Whatever. LaFell's numbers prove my point, as does our need for another legitimate WR---the same need that we have had ever since Muhammad went to the Windy City. I am not the one who makes the dude more than he is every offseason like clockwork. I don't dislike Lafell I just see the reality for what it is: we need, and have needed, a whole lot more at WR (particularly our merry band of 2s over the last 5 years, and we are hopefully going to get it.

And, furthermore, Smitty's numbers were actually above/near his career average when you take the last eight years into account (which obviously make for better stats overall than just looking at his entire career).
FredLane4Ever
Mar 22 2013 08:29 PM
Hairston and one for the game. Side note Hairston has a very small nose and small nostrils.
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koolkatluke
Mar 22 2013 08:36 PM

Whatever. LaFell's numbers prove my point, as does our need for another legitimate WR---the same need that we have had ever since Muhammad went to the Windy City. I am not the one who makes the dude more than he is every offseason like clockwork. I don't dislike Lafell I just see the reality for what it is: we need, and have needed, a whole lot more at WR (particularly our merry band of 2s over the last 5 years, and we are hopefully going to get it.


His numbers are the same as any other 2nd/3rd option in a Read option offence. So you have no point. Plus you seem to neglect the fact he miss 3 games also. Which might have boosted his stats as well. But keep selling him short. We both know you'll be the same dude riding his jock as he makes clutch plays for us this year.

His numbers are the same as any other 2nd/3rd option in a Read option offence. So you have no point. Plus you seem to neglect the fact he miss 3 games also. Which might have boosted his stats as well. But keep selling him short. We both know you'll be the same dude riding his jock as he makes clutch plays for us this year.


Ha. He plays like an old Santana Moss, an injured Garcon and a mediocre WR named Hankerson. Like I said, keep hanging onto this read option excuse. I wonder what excuse it will be this time next year.

And, don't forget to see my edit. Smith's numbers were a little below his TD avg which is basically 6 and a little above his yardage (and that's taking the last 8 years into account (which actually works to his advantage as far as your weak argument goes). Get your facts straight. His numbers were technically well above his career average, and not "well below" like you want everyone to believe.
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koolkatluke
Mar 22 2013 10:09 PM

Ha. He plays like an old Santana Moss, an injured Garcon and a mediocre WR named Hankerson. Like I said, keep hanging onto this read option excuse. I wonder what excuse it will be this time next year.

And, don't forget to see my edit. Smith's numbers were a little below his TD avg which is basically 6 and a little above his yardage (and that's taking the last 8 years into account (which actually works to his advantage as far as your weak argument goes). Get your facts straight. His numbers were technically well above his career average, and not "well below" like you want everyone to believe.



And the Seattle WR's and the 49ers WR's try and add them in here to if you can. It wasn't just a old Moss and Injured Garcon. Tate, Manningham and Moss in there to. All 2nd and 3rd option in a read option offense with similar numbers.

Smith lowest TD total since 2010 and he wasn't injured and you don't see the problem with that?

And the Seattle WR's and the 49ers WR's try and add them in here to if you can. It wasn't just a old Moss and Injured Garcon. Tate, Manningham and Moss in there to. All 2nd and 3rd option in a read option offense with similar numbers.

Smith lowest TD total since 2010 and he wasn't injured and you don't see the problem with that?


Seattle definitely does NOT run a read option offense, and San Fran doesn't really run one either, but for argument's sake I'll concede that LaFell is in the same category as an injured Manningham and ancient Randy Moss. Good for him.

89 is still a 1000 + yard aging WR who still outdoes many of his much younger counterparts. Where is the problem with that? If there is a problem I am sure Gettleman will eventually solve it. But, we can all rest easy because LaFell is there to pick up the slack.

And the Seattle WR's and the 49ers WR's try and add them in here to if you can. It wasn't just a old Moss and Injured Garcon. Tate, Manningham and Moss in there to. All 2nd and 3rd option in a read option offense with similar numbers.

Smith lowest TD total since 2010 and he wasn't injured and you don't see the problem with that?


Smitty has never been a TD guy....more a yardage big play guy. His 2nd most TDs in a season is only 8....and now he is getting old.

Smitty was always more of a YAC TD guy and he ain't got that like he did.

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