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Jmac

Trying to fiqure out the defense we have here

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Most teams would kill to have stud players in 2 out of the 3 levels of defense and we have that with KK and Luke. Secondary, edge rush, and play calling (i.e. blitzing too much) are holding this defense back.

I might be completely crazy but I felt that Worley played better down the stretch once he stopped rotating with Seymour. I prefer Worley slightly over Bradberry because he's more aggressive. Bradberry plays off presumably so that he can make tackles, but he doesn't seem to have a killer instinct. I'd love to see changes at safety and corner for next season because the defense was not elite down the stretch.

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22 hours ago, tiger7_88 said:

Rivera's entire philosophy revolves around running the ball to increase time of possession so that the defense isn't on the field as much so that they are "fresher" which, according to those of this philosophy, should result in a better and more consistent defense.

The problem with Rivera's philosophy is that he executes the "run the ball and increase time of possession" part but it doesn't result in the outcome that he is looking for.  Rivera's defenses at Carolina, in his 7 years as head coach, have only been in the top 10 of the NFL in scoring defense twice.  All other years they've either been dead in the middle or near the bottom.

Which totally shatters his philosophy.  If you're going to sacrifice dynamic offense and the ability to score points for "ground and pound and run the clock", the second part of the formula, i.e. solid defense, HAS to come through or you just produce mediocrity.

Which is an excellent adjective to describe Ron Rivera.

Great assessment, wish i could pie 100 more times.  Riveras philosophy is trash which is why i have been saying we wont win with him unless he is willing to change completely. 

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Our secondary is our Achilles heel and unfortunately I don't think it's realistic to expect it to be fixed in one off-season. 

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On 1/20/2018 at 10:11 AM, Jmac said:

So according to many talking heads, we had a good defense. I would classify it as mediocre at best. Anyone who has watched this team knows what I mean. Is it the personal, the scheme, coaching, or a combination of the above? 

 

Personnel issue. Been saying it all season. We had the 21st ranked unit last year and the 7th this year. 

Coaching and scheme has done its job because if you think Peppers at 37(just turned 38) and Mike Adams(36) are the cause for the jump you’re wrong and they are the only two additions over last years team that made an impact.

we as a team are super strong in the middle with Star KK and Luke. And that makes up for a lot of weaknesses. But Davis was definitely showing his age this year and def lost a step or two. And honestly I really don’t care for anyone in our defensive backfield. 

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Our defense looks bad at times to us.  But compared to the rest of the league, its actually pretty good.  In reality, almost all defenses today look in consistent at times.  Ours is not great, and certainly not dominant, but good enough to win if our offense gets better.  

 

Fwiw, our worst games from a points allowed standpoint were usually do to the the offense turning the ball over.  

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There is a lot of talk about the secondary. And yes it is certainly concerning to a degree. But the bigger discussion should be about our pass rush. We've tried the hog mollies DT stockpiling thing, and so far it's resulted in the division passing us by. We need real pass rush help in the form of an elite DE, that could alleviate some of the secondary issues.

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23 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

Great assessment, wish i could pie 100 more times.  Riveras philosophy is trash which is why i have been saying we wont win with him unless he is willing to change completely. 

Only y’all are both wrong. If you think RR is only mediocre you have literally no idea how well we have it. 

Panthers have had it pretty good under Riverboat Ron. He’s won coach of the year twice, the playoffs 4 of the last 5 years with 3 straight Division champs, and a NFC champ with a super bowl appearance and y’all call him mediocre?

yall be trippin

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3 minutes ago, TheRed said:

There is a lot of talk about the secondary. And yes it is certainly concerning to a degree. But the bigger discussion should be about our pass rush. We've tried the hog mollies DT stockpiling thing, and so far it's resulted in the division passing us by. We need real pass rush help, that could alleviate some of the secondary issues.

I am curious as to your reasoning behind this statement.  We were third in the NFL in sacks, and 80% of them came from our defensive line.  I think our dline had more sacks than any dline in the NFC south.  Granted we didn't have that one dominant guy, but we did a good job spreading them around.  

That being said, we do need to get younger at defensive end.  Johnson should retire, and we might get another season out of JP.  

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18 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

I am curious as to your reasoning behind this statement.  We were third in the NFL in sacks, and 80% of them came from our defensive line.  I think our dline had more sacks than any dline in the NFC south.  Granted we didn't have that one dominant guy, but we did a good job spreading them around.  

That being said, we do need to get younger at defensive end.  Johnson should retire, and we might get another season out of JP.  

I'm mainly referring to the final two games. With playoff implications on the line against the Falcons, we struggled to contain or pull down Matt Ryan when it really mattered. Ditto with Drew Brees in the playoff game. Ultimately nobody cares how many sacks you had throughout the regular season. If you can't finish strong, you're doomed. We got lit up, we lost. I attribute this to being relegated to benching Charles Johnson, and trotting out a pushing 40 Julius Peppers, and an above average but far from dominant Mario Addison. Look the truth isn't fun, but it's the truth.

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6 minutes ago, TheRed said:

I'm mainly referring to the final two games. With playoff implications on the line against the Falcons, we struggled to contain or pull down Matt Ryan when it really mattered. Ditto with Drew Brees in the playoff game. Ultimately nobody cares how many sacks you had throughout the regular season. If you can't finish strong, you're doomed. We got lit up, we lost. I attribute this to being relegated to benching Charles Johnston, and trotting out a pushing 40 Julius Peppers, and an above average but far from dominant Mario Addison. 

If you are depending on sacks and pressure facing Drew Brees, you are out of luck.  He is one of the best in NFL history at getting the ball out quick.  That is why he is always among the league leaders in fewest sacks even though he plays in a pass happy offense.  In fact, he and Ryan were second and third in the league in fewest sacks.  Our defense played well enough to win against Atlanta, unfortunately the offense just didn't have enough receivers with speed after Byrd went down to do anything.

 

 

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Just now, Davidson Deac II said:

If you are depending on sacks and pressure facing Drew Brees, you are out of luck.  He is one of the best in NFL history at getting the ball out quick.  That is why he is always among the league leaders in fewest sacks even though he plays in a pass happy offense.  In fact, he and Ryan were second and third in the league in fewest sacks.  Our defense played well enough to win against Atlanta, unfortunately the offense just didn't have enough receivers with speed after Byrd went down to do anything.

 

I'm not expecting us to put him on his ass every other play. But over the years we've definitely had better success pressuring both him and Ryan. I know they get the ball out quick. The remedy for that is actually having speed rushers. We haven't had anyone like that since the days of Greg Hardy. If we cant agree that DE is a need, especially in a division that just sent 3 teams to the playoffs, then we don't need to waste our time quoting each other.

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IMO, the problem is what happens between the sacks.  Yes, we had a good number of sacks, but all too often, QB's had a lot of time in the pocket before feeling any pressure.  At this stage of his career, Peppers along with Addison are solid pass rushers.  But neither are dynamic and don't really force teams to adjust their game plans for them.  They tend to play us straight up, which doesn't give us the mismatches we need to really put teams on their heels.  

Look at many of those big passing games we gave up.  In most cases the QB had a lot of time in the pocket to wait on someone coming free.  And when they did, they were able to step up and make an uncontested throw.  Bottom line is that we don't get enough pressure up front.  This is one of the reasons Wilks blitzed so much.  And it's also one of the reasons our back end struggles so much.  

Without a doubt, we need an infusion of speed in our defensive backfield, but we also need a stud pass rusher.   

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On 1/20/2018 at 12:56 PM, tiger7_88 said:

Rivera's entire philosophy revolves around running the ball to increase time of possession so that the defense isn't on the field as much so that they are "fresher" which, according to those of this philosophy, should result in a better and more consistent defense.

The problem with Rivera's philosophy is that he executes the "run the ball and increase time of possession" part but it doesn't result in the outcome that he is looking for.  Rivera's defenses at Carolina, in his 7 years as head coach, have only been in the top 10 of the NFL in scoring defense twice.  All other years they've either been dead in the middle or near the bottom.

Which totally shatters his philosophy.  If you're going to sacrifice dynamic offense and the ability to score points for "ground and pound and run the clock", the second part of the formula, i.e. solid defense, HAS to come through or you just produce mediocrity.

Which is an excellent adjective to describe Ron Rivera.

Excellent point on TOP

NE, the gold standard, seldom owns the TOP advantage

The teams they beat do

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I would like to see  Worley moved to SS.  He has the skill set to face the LOS and he comes  up and makes tackles well.  He can't cover that well, but  vs. a TE or back, shoot.  I think he would be good in the deep half too.  Radical?  Not really.

Corn and Capt. for a year at nickel.  Bradberry vs. the #2 is a better fit.  Some have bashed Bradberry and compared him to Worley--not a fair comparison.  Bradberry has not been that bad vs. some very strong WRs this year.

Draft a FS and sign a veteran CB.  Draft a CB--the draft has a few decent CBs.

If we are going to blitz  every down, we need man corners.  Personally, I think Seymour is good depth.  These guys are young and we put a lot on this with our blitz packages. 

Just 1 opinion vs. hundreds of possible moves..

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