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ARSEN

Game of Thrones - Season 8

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1 hour ago, natty said:

It's amazing how such bad writing can be executed so beautifully.   

Every episode has made the previous one worse. 

I'm ok with pretty much all the conclusions, they have just come to them in the worst ways possible.  I've thought for a long time that Dany will go mad queen in the end.  It'd be great juxtaposition with watching Jaime start a villain and redeem himself, to see Dany start the 'good guy' and become the villain.  But ffs you need to write that gracefully, not just lol bells.

Even minor tweaks could have made things much better.  Why ruin Jaime's arc?  Why undo literally all the poo that has been built up with him?  Just have him go back to KL with the intention of killing Cersei("she should die by my hands, not burned by a dragon queen") and then break down when he sees her crying.  Same result, didn't have to kill his character arc.

This is where I am too.  I like most of the endings, but the path they have gone to get to each and the execution has been terrible (outside of Arya, Sansa, and The Hound).

I agree that the Jamie conclusion sucks.

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1 hour ago, Bronn said:

So who does everything think the best acted/best written character of the series has been/will be?

IMHO I think the Hound should get that title. His arc really was written well, and completed well. Plus Rory McCann did a superb job portraying the character I read in the books.

Arya might be a close second. Tormund is up there too, but he was pretty much comic relief. They kind of messed Bronn up two episodes ago IMHO, but until then he was up there. Jon is okay, I guess, but GD is he annoying af with all his brooding, indecisiveness. Varys stayed true to his goals until the end, I think.

1-Arya
2-Theon
3-The Hound
4-Sansa
5-Varys

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Ahhhh poo here we go again.

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9 minutes ago, Dex said:

Ahhhh poo here we go again.

I don't think that's from the episode.

Tyrion did ask him did he ever consider taking it off though, lol.

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1 minute ago, Bronn said:

I don't think that's from the episode.

wut

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40 minutes ago, Bronn said:

I think you're in denial. You're giving the writers too much credit. There is only one episode left, and I doubt they give either Cersei or Jaime a magic dumpster, especially just so someone else can kill them.

Using your logic, the Hound has already survived a pretty bad fall when he fought Brienne. Maybe he survived the fall in Cleganebowl?

I don’t think I giving the writers credit.  My assumption is a negative toward them.   I have a  general rule that people are dead when they show you they died. 

and I don’t think not buying a buried under the rubble plot line that has been used a thousand times in TV and movies is actually going out on some crazy limb.  That almost is always a survivor when TV/movie folks go that route. The Hound is dead.   

I could be right.  Could be wrong.   I have always believed the show most likely would just set up a restart for the whole thing to start again.  

 

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As a pure single episode ... best of the series. Action, adventure, romance, emotion, plot, blood, guts, war, destruction, tension, arcs continued/ended.

But I get how book fans hate where we ended up, and how people who have wanted a certain thing since S1 are enraged they won't get it.

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1 minute ago, Gipetto said:

book fans hate everything

nahhh... I'm a book fan and a show homer. I like a lot of things about the show that purists hate.

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23 minutes ago, Dex said:

wut

I think it is from a promo/set shot that wasn't actually used on the screen. I'll have to go back and rewatch the sequence, but I think it wasn't from the actual live airing of the show.

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2 minutes ago, Bronn said:

I think it is from a promo/set shot that wasn't actually used on the screen. I'll have to go back and rewatch the sequence, but I think it wasn't from the actual live airing of the show.

Ahh gotcha.

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OK loved the episode. Really can't get my head around people hating the writing because it didn't go the way they wanted. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Is it bad? Nope. But everyone is majestic screenwriter now I guess.

Anyways, the 2 characters that I've seen the most complaints about are Dany and Jaimie. I have no issue with either character. I do think the Euron v Jaimie death match seemed a bit out of place and a little forced but it wasn't egregious or anything that I absolutely hated.

Jaimie's arc is a perfect example of how hard it is to actually change and while you can get mostly there, in the critical moment where the hard change is needed, most revert to what we know, the familiar us, the safe us and possibly the true us. It's not that we CAN'T change...but that it's damn hard to do so and Jaimie's arc isn't ruined because he failed to change. It's still a nice character arc even in his ultimate failure. He has consistently shown that would be his arc and then...boom...he did it. Again, it's hard as hell for us to fundamentally change.

As for Dany, she didn't turn out to be the hero everyone WANTED her to be (to include the actress apparently). She has been itching to burn her enemies since season 2 and has told us every chance she had. She reluctantly didn't burn King's Landing several times after the begging of her advisors. Well, now her advisors are either dead or have betrayed her...she burns KL and everyone is surprised? Why? She's been resisting being the heel for several SEASONS. Her final turn was neither abrupt nor a surprise. BUT it's not what people wanted for her. They wanted the breaker of chains to break the wheel and be a "benevolent ruler". That has a TON more to do with what people wanted than any poor writing. The people didn't get what they wanted so now the writing is terrible. Sounds more like children throwing a tantrum than any objective critique of writing ability by the writers. Lol.

I've also seen some nonsense about Tyrion. To me, his steadfast belief in Dany shows precisely how many of us have a blind spots when it comes to fatal flaws in our relationships. We see what we want to see and hope for the best because we were convinced this was the one. We saw someone at their best and believed that they could be that all the time. Turns out we were blind to who they really were and our expectations replaced what was there to see in plain sight.

Loved the rest. Varys was definitely trying to poison Dany's food. Was disturbing how carelessly and casually Dany ordered his execution. Drogon was bad ass and powerful. How I like all my dragons. War was awful. Innocent people died. Loved and hated that they made me feel pity for Cersei's humanity at the end. I wanted the more satisfying Ramsey Bolton treatment for her but it's not about what I wanted. Clegane Bowl was great and satisfying. Qyburn going quick at the hands of his monster was nice. Arya being helpless was nice too.

Great episode.

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6 minutes ago, Moorgan said:

Really can't get my head around people hating the writing because it didn't go the way they wanted. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Is it bad? Nope. But everyone is majestic screenwriter now I guess.

 

 

Not really sure what this means... most of us haven't said we hated it because it didn't go the "way we wanted".

I personally have zero problem with WHERE they've gone... I have a problem with HOW they got there.

Dragons that one episode are super duper easily shot from the sky from a moving ship, but the very next episode the dragon easily wipes out an entire fleet and castle equipped with the exact same weapons???

That is shitty writing.

 

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9 minutes ago, Darth Biscuit said:

Not really sure what this means... most of us haven't said we hated it because it didn't go the "way we wanted".

I personally have zero problem with WHERE they've gone... I have a problem with HOW they got there.

Dragons that one episode are super duper easily shot from the sky from a moving ship, but the very next episode the dragon easily wipes out an entire fleet and castle equipped with the exact same weapons???

That is shitty writing.

 

I'm talking more about Twitter reactions than specifically people in here. The general public calling the writing shitty I think is very much a function of the characters not turning out how they wanted. As for the mechanics of HOW the story gets where it is...sure. It could be better here and there. But the tactics of the dragon was addressed by someone earlier in the thread. The only real issue was how did Rhaegar get ambushed? Drogon destroying the city and fleet makes sense. We all know that Rhaegar dying was necessary. Did shitty writing get it done? Yeah ok. Is it egregious? No. Does it make every criticism of the show...shitty writing? No.

Basically, if they come up with a more "believable" way for Rhaegar to bite the dust then people's complaints aren't about writing. It's about the story not going the way they wanted.

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5 minutes ago, Moorgan said:

I'm talking more about Twitter reactions than specifically people in here. The general public calling the writing shitty I think is very much a function of the characters not turning out how they wanted. As for the mechanics of HOW the story gets where it is...sure. It could be better here and there. But the tactics of the dragon was addressed by someone earlier in the thread. The only real issue was how did Rhaegar get ambushed? Drogon destroying the city and fleet makes sense. We all know that Rhaegar dying was necessary. Did shitty writing get it done? Yeah ok. Is it egregious? No. Does it make every criticism of the show...shitty writing? No.

Basically, if they come up with a more "believable" way for Rhaegar to bite the dust then people's complaints aren't about writing. It's about the story not going the way they wanted.

I'm not sure I follow...  There have been a ton of things that have felt rushed and glossed over and I don't buy the "explanation" as given earlier, it's flimsy at best...  

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