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Bartin

Article and stats on wasted timeouts

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Found this interesting given the frequent uproar about not getting to the line in time and being forced to waste timeouts. The author defines a wasted timeout as one that is used before the 2 minute warning in the 1st half and before 5 minutes remaining in the 2nd half and timeouts from lost challenges are also removed. The interesting part is that we are in the bottom half of the NFL with 5 wasted timeouts. Packers lead the way with 14 and the Rams and Raiders both have 13 wasted timeouts.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/by-the-numbers/2018/10/18/17992880/do-the-packers-waste-timeouts-rodgers-mccarthy-yes-they-waste-a-ton-of-timeouts

The article is primarily focused on the Packers since it is from a Packers blog but I thought the data contained in it was relevant to us and interesting enough to share.

Now there are other issues that this data can't show such as regularly snapping the ball with 1 second left on the play clock, but having a low number of wasted timeouts was very surprising to me so maybe things aren't so terrible. I would probably lose my mind if we were wasting as many timeouts as the teams at the top.

Edited by Bartin
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8 minutes ago, Bartin said:

Found this interesting given the frequent uproar about not getting to the line in time and being forced to waste timeouts. The author defines a wasted timeout as one that is used before the 2 minute warning in the 1st half and before 5 minutes remaining in the 2nd half and timeouts from lost challenges are also removed. The interesting part is that we are in the bottom half of the NFL with 5 wasted timeouts. Packers lead the way with 14 and the Rams and Raiders both have 13 wasted timeouts.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/by-the-numbers/2018/10/18/17992880/do-the-packers-waste-timeouts-rodgers-mccarthy-yes-they-waste-a-ton-of-timeouts

The article is primarily focused on the PAckers since it is from a Packers blog but I thought the data contained in it was relevant to us and interesting enough to share.

Now there are other issues that this data can't show such as regularly snapping the ball with 1 second left on the play clock, but having a low number of wasted timeouts was very surprising to me so maybe things aren't so terrible. I would probably lose my mind if we were wasting as many timeouts as the teams at the top.

Nice find and thanks for sharing.

My concern is this--I think Cam is better at a faster pace than he is getting the ball snapped just before the :00 mark on the play clock.  I think his pre-snap focus needs to be on the defensive movement and not on the dwindling play clock. In our stadium, the clock is very high, near the ribbons that run between upper and lower deck. Is that  where his eyes need to be?  I say "nay, nay."

 

Edited by MHS831

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Cam self admittedly sucks at calling plays in the huddle and has to have other players help at times. Late play clock snaps will always occur as long as that’s an issue.

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2 minutes ago, Fright said:

Cam self admittedly sucks at calling plays in the huddle and has to have other players help at times. Late play clock snaps will always occur as long as that’s an issue.

Yeah that seems to be the crux of our issue but after seeing that we actually waste timeouts at a low rate compared to the rest of the NFL maybe it's not really that big of deal and we think our problem is much bigger than it is because for the most part we only pay close attention to our team. I know for me I hate it when we waste timeouts and I get mad when we do but if I'm watching another game a wasted timeout doesn't even really register.

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1 hour ago, Fright said:

Cam self admittedly sucks at calling plays in the huddle and has to have other players help at times. Late play clock snaps will always occur as long as that’s an issue.

In his press conferences he talks about getting into rhythm on offense and why it's so important. He thrives in the no-huddle and gets in rhythm pretty easily when allowed to do it, but we can't do that all the time.  gotta control that clock...

Edited by billionairemonk
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25 minutes ago, billionairemonk said:

In his press conferences he talks about getting into rhythm on offense and why it's so important. He thrives in the no-huddle and gets in rhythm pretty easily when allowed to do it, but we can't do that all the time.  gotta control that clock...

I would like to see the stats on that. When I tried to approximate it by using the last 2 minutes of each half when we passed the ball his completion percentage, yards per completion and 0 tds. were lower compared to the rest of the half. The first half was better than the second half.

http://www.nfl.com/player/camnewton/2495455/situationalstats

 

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19 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

I would like to see the stats on that. When I tried to approximate it by using the last 2 minutes of each half when we passed the ball his completion percentage, yards per completion and 0 tds. were lower compared to the rest of the half. The first half was better than the second half.

http://www.nfl.com/player/camnewton/2495455/situationalstats

 

yeah, the last two minutes this season haven't been that great.  i don't know if rivera is more involved in those situations or what the reason is.  i was referring to the seasons under shula when he was going no-huddle periodically in non-2 minute drill situations.  this is obviously just from my memory and not necessarily accurate, but i seem to remember him marching the offense right down the field and scoring with ease more often than not.

Edited by billionairemonk
clarification

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searching for "Cam Newton no huddle stats"

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/panthers-not-interested-in-qb-cam-newton-going-no-huddle-all-the-time/

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/panthers-no-huddle-change-pace-222201139--nfl.html

''I think it helps the team,'' Rivera said. ''We've shown that we do handle the no huddle nicely.''

Rivera thinks using it all of time would be too much. He prefers to be control the ball and allow his defense a chance to rest between possessions on the field rather than get in a track meet.

 

Said Newton: ''I am familiar with a few no huddle situations or philosophies in my resume, and it has done me great.''

Shula said the no-huddle seems to fit Newton's natural instinctive skills as a quarterback and allows him to react to what's going on.

''When things seem to be going 100 miles an hour, they slow down even better for him,'' Shula said. ''Sometimes, that's a really good thing. ... Sometimes it helps make the defense react quicker than they want to.''

Center Ryan Kalil said Newton ''takes over'' when running the no-huddle offense.

''He takes it over,'' Kalil said after Sunday's game. ''He does a good job in recognizing the defense and he does a good job in keeping it going. I thought obviously we were able to get into more of a rhythm.''

Edited by billionairemonk
more info

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40 minutes ago, billionairemonk said:

searching for "Cam Newton no huddle stats"

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/panthers-not-interested-in-qb-cam-newton-going-no-huddle-all-the-time/

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/panthers-no-huddle-change-pace-222201139--nfl.html

''I think it helps the team,'' Rivera said. ''We've shown that we do handle the no huddle nicely.''

Rivera thinks using it all of time would be too much. He prefers to be control the ball and allow his defense a chance to rest between possessions on the field rather than get in a track meet.

 

Said Newton: ''I am familiar with a few no huddle situations or philosophies in my resume, and it has done me great.''

Shula said the no-huddle seems to fit Newton's natural instinctive skills as a quarterback and allows him to react to what's going on.

''When things seem to be going 100 miles an hour, they slow down even better for him,'' Shula said. ''Sometimes, that's a really good thing. ... Sometimes it helps make the defense react quicker than they want to.''

Center Ryan Kalil said Newton ''takes over'' when running the no-huddle offense.

''He takes it over,'' Kalil said after Sunday's game. ''He does a good job in recognizing the defense and he does a good job in keeping it going. I thought obviously we were able to get into more of a rhythm.''

Cherry pick one game much to try and make a point. Since those articles reference one game in 2014 where he used the no huddle on the last drive of the first half and first drive of the second half lets compare that to all of 2014 comparing the last 2 minutes of the half compared to the rest of the half. And once again his stats are lower when he supposedly is in the no huddle.

http://www.nfl.com/player/camnewton/2495455/situationalstats?season=2014

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6 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Cherry pick one game much to try and make a point. Since those articles reference one game in 2014 where he used the no huddle on the last drive of the first half and first drive of the second half lets compare that to all of 2014 comparing the last 2 minutes of the half compared to the rest of the half. And once again his stats are lower when he supposedly is in the no huddle.

http://www.nfl.com/player/camnewton/2495455/situationalstats?season=2014

no-huddle and two minute offense are different things.  and yes, i didn't search for hours to make a spreadsheet for cam's entire career, sue me. my point still stands in that cam and, clearly, the coaches and some players acknowledge that he is more comfortable in no huddle.  he dominated with it in college and it suits his skill set.

i apologize for this comparison, but it is the only one i can think of - cam is like the juggernaut, once he gets rolling he is unstoppable. woudn't you agree that a coach letting a player play to his strengths is a prudent move?  i'm not saying rivera should let him go no huddle all game every game, but stifling the offense for the sake of the defense is counterproductive, in my opinion.

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19 minutes ago, billionairemonk said:

no-huddle and two minute offense are different things.  and yes, i didn't search for hours to make a spreadsheet for cam's entire career, sue me. my point still stands in that cam and, clearly, the coaches and some players acknowledge that he is more comfortable in no huddle.  he dominated with it in college and it suits his skill set.

i apologize for this comparison, but it is the only one i can think of - cam is like the juggernaut, once he gets rolling he is unstoppable. woudn't you agree that a coach letting a player play to his strengths is a prudent move?  i'm not saying rivera should let him go no huddle all game every game, but stifling the offense for the sake of the defense is counterproductive, in my opinion.

They aren't exactly the same but this seems the closest comparison I could find. I have searched like you and could only find  this kind of very small sampling. Not enough to declare he is so great in the no huddle. Especially when he has been in the no huddle the.most throughout his career in the last few minutes of the half. Look at Washington, with second and 5 at the 15 he throws 3 incompletions in a row. He is inconsistent. Certainly not good in the 2 minute drill.

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1 minute ago, panthers55 said:

They aren't exactly the same but this seems the closest comparison I could find. I have searched like you and could only find  this kind of very small sampling. Not enough to declare he is so great in the no huddle. Especially when he has been in the no huddle the.most throughout his career in the last few minutes of the half. Look at Washington, with second and 5 at the 15 he throws 3 incompletions in a row. He is inconsistent. Certainly not good in the 2 minute drill.

i agree with this.  my position stems from the fact that cam loves the no huddle and he says he is more effective in it.  whether or not that is true, i cannot say with certainty.

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1 minute ago, billionairemonk said:

i agree with this.  my position stems from the fact that cam loves the no huddle and he says he is more effective in it.  whether or not that is true, i cannot say with certainty.

Cam says a lot of things. And honestly I would love for him to be great in the 2 minute drill.  How many times have guys like Brady, Brees and Roethlisburger won games on the last drive. Brady and Ben did it last Sunday. I would have loved for Cam to be on that short list. And for us to be 4-1.

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12 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Cam says a lot of things. And honestly I would love for him to be great in the 2 minute drill.  How many times have guys like Brady, Brees and Roethlisburger won games on the last drive. Brady and Ben did it last Sunday. I would have loved for Cam to be on that short list. And for us to be 4-1.

Cam has 14 game winning drives

Rodgers has 17 game winning drives

Cam is pretty good at winning on the last drive

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If the next play works (scores, gets a first down, or even gains say five yards on first or second down, or the opposite on defense), then the time out shouldn't be considered as wasted.

Not using a time out and going headlong into exactly the wrong play, or with players completely out of place, that's an even bigger problem.

Calling a time out to give the refs a chance to review the play (without throwing the red flag), if a call is reversed, isn't a wasted time out, either.

The author narrowed his search too much and I think it was to reinforce his bias. What happens after a time out is the real determining factor if it is wasted or not.

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