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Icege

A case to designate Dontari Poe as a post-6/1 cut

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It's no secret that any DT this season not named Kyle Love under performed. Kawann Short got big boy money and then didn't produce as he had leading up to the contract year. Many point to the man next to KK, Dontari Poe, as a contributor to this decline.

While Star Lotulelei did not eat up stat sheets, he did eat up double teams. Star was a great anchor at the point of attack which afforded KK plenty of one-on-one opportunities to capitalize on. Dontari Poe is a better athlete than Star and is even bigger at nearly 350lbs. He was supposed to consume those double teams and then some.

That did not play out as planned.

Poe was pushed around and largely ineffective. Fans began to echo that the Falcons, a division rival that needed DL help, seemed happy to be done with him after the season prior. Now, the team is cash strapped and looking at 2019 with a lot of question marks. One of these questions is which two players, if any, will be designated as post-6/1 releases? Matt Kalil is the deserved favorite to be cut. Others have called for Captain Munnerlyn, citing his declining play as well as the 3.5M saved releasing him post-6/1 in comparison to the 2M saved as a pre-6/1 cut.

I present to you the following data sets for two defensive tackles this year:

2018 Defensive Statistics
A: 1 sack, 17 tackles (9 solo, 8 assists), 4 TFL, 3 QB Hits, 1 fumble recovery
B: 0.5 sack, 19 tackles (6 solo, 13 assists), 4 QB Hits

2018 Games & Snap Counts
A: 16 games played, 515 defensive snaps (51.65%), 23 special teams snaps (5.5%)
B: 14 games played, 330 defensive snaps (33.10%), 65 special teams snaps (15.55%)

2019 Salary Cap hit
A: $9.3M hit. Pre-6/1 cut creates $6.6M of dead cap in 2019 while freeing up $2.6M. Post-6/1 cut creates $3.3M dead cap in 2019 & 2020 while freeing up $6M in 2019 cap space.
B: $2.7M hit. Pre-6/1 cut saves $1.6M while creating $1.1M in dead cap for 2019. Post-6/1 cut creates $2.7M in dead cap for 2019 with no savings.

One of these is clearly Dontari Poe while the other is a defensive tackle on their rookie contract. I'm also sure that some of you that have seen me post can tell where this is going and want to hit me with a bus (which I deserve, no doubt). 

Player B, if you haven't figured it out already, is our resident bust: Vernon Butler.

Before we go any further, this is not a pro-Butler thread. He's a bust. I won't apologize for him anymore. He has been wildly underwhelming regardless of whatever reason there can be behind it (coaching sucks, he sucks, whatever). It's added reasoning behind not paying Poe the amount of money he is due should he remain with the team.

Dontari Poe's contract has the most benefit next to Matt Kalil to designate as a post-6/1 cut. Only Mario Addison is comparable, but with only Addison and Haynes under contract for next season at DE I can see the team trying to renegotiate rather than Addison. Between Kalil and Poe, the team can go from paying out over $20M for two under performing starters to saving $13M which could go towards resigning Daryll Williams and Kyle Love to fill those spots at the cost of an extra 8M of dead cap in 2019 and 13M of dead cap in 2020.

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Disagree. Poe is and has never been a pass rusher. He is a gap eater taking double team giving the LB ability to shot gabs. If you watch game film he dose not get driven back as much as short. Same mode as Five-time Pro Bowler Haloti Ngata. He won’t wow you with stats. We need him on the team next year. 

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..when you start hacking players you still have to replace  them...my comfort  and confidence level for them to select an upgrade isn't very high... start accumulating dead money and it becomes harder to offer money for an upgrade. shtty situation for having so many needs...course Kalildo is a no brainer.

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20 minutes ago, ImfromClayton said:

I'm cool with this if we pick Dexter Lawrence.

Shhhhh, you'll jinx it! :Eyes_Emoji_42x42:

I'm doing everything in my power not to throw myself at the idea of Dexter Lawrence being on the Panthers like I did with Star because terrible things happen to individuals that I like.

 

For those saying, "It will create another hole," I would like to point at how well Kyle Love has played as the back up nose tackle:

16 games, 468 defensive snaps (46.94%), 9 special teams snap (2.15%)
1 pass deflection, 3 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recovers, 1.5 sack, 19 tackles (12 solo, 7 assists), 4 QB Hits

I'm not saying let's start Kyle Love, but I'm confident that another body can produce better results than Poe did (we also heard plenty about Luke not looking himself as linemen were regularly getting to the second level, Poe was not keeping him clean).
 

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Big hole here too.

Our DL needs to be gutted minus KK

I get the Frustration with KK.  But last year,the first year AFTER being payed.  He Outperformed Cox up in Philly.

KK's play didnt drop until Poe came in.  Its also no coincidence this is the same year Luke has had his worst season. 

 

Its also no coincidence that these issues brought up about Poe in our Gripes this season.  Are the SAME things Falcons fans b!+ched about last season before they didnt even attempt to resign him last offseason.  And their own freaking fans WARNING a division rival about him this past offseason. 

 

I kept a eye on him the last few games once we were out of it.  The dude wasn't really even taking double teams because a Center or Guard was mauling him while KK would get dluble teamed or OL would just get out on a LB.

 

 

Dude has been a waste of space.

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25 minutes ago, Cam2Ligit2Quit said:

Disagree. Poe is and has never been a pass rusher. He is a gap eater taking double team giving the LB ability to shot gabs. If you watch game film he dose not get driven back as much as short. Same mode as Five-time Pro Bowler Haloti Ngata. He won’t wow you with stats. We need him on the team next year. 

Watched the film. 

He didnt take many teams, especially as the season went on.

He wasnt a gal eater and was getting pushed back 

Think it was the the 2nd Atlanta game.  There was a play on a 3rd down where a Center 1 on 1 pushed him back atleast 3 yards 

 

 

These are the same gripes that was brought up by Atlanta when they warned us.

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34 minutes ago, Icege said:

It's no secret that any DT this season not named Kyle Love under performed. Kawann Short got big boy money and then didn't produce as he had leading up to the contract year. Many point to the man next to KK, Dontari Poe, as a contributor to this decline.

While Star Lotulelei did not eat up stat sheets, he did eat up double teams. Star was a great anchor at the point of attack which afforded KK plenty of one-on-one opportunities to capitalize on. Dontari Poe is a better athlete than Star and is even bigger at nearly 350lbs. He was supposed to consume those double teams and then some.

That did not play out as planned.

Poe was pushed around and largely ineffective. Fans began to echo that the Falcons, a division rival that needed DL help, seemed happy to be done with him after the season prior. Now, the team is cash strapped and looking at 2019 with a lot of question marks. One of these questions is which two players, if any, will be designated as post-6/1 releases? Matt Kalil is the deserved favorite to be cut. Others have called for Captain Munnerlyn, citing his declining play as well as the 3.5M saved releasing him post-6/1 in comparison to the 2M saved as a pre-6/1 cut.

I present to you the following data sets for two defensive tackles this year:

2018 Defensive Statistics
A: 1 sack, 17 tackles (9 solo, 8 assists), 4 TFL, 3 QB Hits, 1 fumble recovery
B: 0.5 sack, 19 tackles (6 solo, 13 assists), 4 QB Hits 

2018 Games & Snap Counts
A: 16 games played, 515 defensive snaps (51.65%), 23 special teams snaps (5.5%)
B: 14 games played, 330 defensive snaps (33.10%), 65 special teams snaps (15.55%)

2019 Salary Cap hit
A: $9.3M hit. Pre-6/1 cut creates $6.6M of dead cap in 2019 while freeing up $2.6M. Post-6/1 cut creates $3.3M dead cap in 2019 & 2020 while freeing up $6M in 2019 cap space.
B: $2.7M hit. Pre-6/1 cut saves $1.6M while creating $1.1M in dead cap for 2019. Post-6/1 cut creates $2.7M in dead cap for 2019 with no savings.

One of these is clearly Dontari Poe while the other is a defensive tackle on their rookie contract. I'm also sure that some of you that have seen me post can tell where this is going and want to hit me with a bus (which I deserve, no doubt). 

Player B, if you haven't figured it out already, is our resident bust: Vernon Butler.

Before we go any further, this is not a pro-Butler thread. He's a bust. I won't apologize for him anymore. He has been wildly underwhelming regardless of whatever reason there can be behind it (coaching sucks, he sucks, whatever). It's added reasoning behind not paying Poe the amount of money he is due should he remain with the team.

Dontari Poe's contract has the most benefit next to Matt Kalil to designate as a post-6/1 cut. Only Mario Addison is comparable, but with only Addison and Haynes under contract for next season at DE I can see the team trying to renegotiate rather than Addison. Between Kalil and Poe, the team can go from paying out over $20M for two under performing starters to saving $13M which could go towards resigning Daryll Williams and Kyle Love to fill those spots at the cost of an extra 8M of dead cap in 2019 and 13M of dead cap in 2020.

Here's another comparison:

2018 Defensive Statistics
A: 1 sack, 17 tackles, 4 TFL, 3 QB Hits, Salary: 5.3m
B: 0 sack, 17 tackles, 1 TFL, 0 QB Hits, Salary: 6.7m

Anyone know who player B is?

Not saying I love Poe.  And 9.3m is a big hit next year (player B will be making 11.5m next year by the way).  But I believe we are limited in how many designated June 1 cuts we can make and I'd much rather dump Matt Kalil and his dead weight. 

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I know it will create another hole but I am perfectly ok with Poe and Butler being told to pack their poo. Poe should be charged with theft for not earning his salary and Butler looks like one of the worst first round picks we’ve ever had. 

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10 minutes ago, ncfan said:

Big hole here too.

Our DL needs to be gutted minus KK

I get the Frustration with KK.  But last year,the first year AFTER being payed.  He Outperformed Cox up in Philly.

KK's play didnt drop until Poe came in.  Its also no coincidence this is the same year Luke has had his worst season. 

 

Its also no coincidence that these issues brought up about Poe in our Gripes this season.  Are the SAME things Falcons fans b!+ched about last season before they didnt even attempt to resign him last offseason.  And their own freaking fans WARNING a division rival about him this past offseason. 

 

I kept a eye on him the last few games once we were out of it.  The dude wasn't really even taking double teams because a Center or Guard was mauling him while KK would get dluble teamed or OL would just get out on a LB.

 

 

Dude has been a waste of space.

Not sure about the other stuff - but Kuechly had a tremendous season.  His stats were similar to last year except his TFLs which blew up from 7 to 20.  The closest LB to him was Von Miller, who is basically just a full-time pass rusher.  People like to look at sacks, but TFLs are just as important in getting a defense off the field.

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31 minutes ago, 4Corners said:

I know it will create another hole but I am perfectly ok with Poe and Butler being told to pack their poo. Poe should be charged with theft for not earning his salary and Butler looks like one of the worst first round picks we’ve ever had. 

...we have 40 players under contract. we have 25mil in cap space. we need 13 more players signed.. 6 outta the draft plus 7 more...how you going to do that with 25mil and upgrade with dead money...we hosed...but oh, marty is a cap genius...

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If we go to 3-4, Poe would be best NT we got

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