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LinvilleGorge

Panthers well represented at Clemson pro day

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10 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yeah, I like Wilkins A LOT. Dude is a stud. Wouldn't surprise me oje bit if he ended up being the best pro player off of that Clemson team. Yes, even including that Fabio wannabe QB.

I could see us grab Wilkins even though DT isn't a major need.

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9 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

A lot of people are.

Mentioned in another thread, the knock I've heard on him is that his teammates make him look better than he is.

(someone else disagreed with that, I forget who)

I don't feel like I'm watched him enough to form an opinion so for now I'm just listening to what I've heard others say.

Said about every prospect ever who had other legit NFL prospects sharing the field with him. A lot of people though Lavar Arrington was a product of Courtney Brown. Brown went #1 overall in a great draft and was straight trash. Hell, plenty though that Peppers was a product of Ryan Sims at UNC. Peppers is going to the HOF. Sims was trash.

If there's a guy I'm questioning right now it's Lawrence. Ferrell and Wilkins didn't miss a beat without him.

Edited by LinvilleGorge
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7 minutes ago, Riverboat Ron said:

I could see us grab Wilkins even though DT isn't a major need.

How isn't DT a major need? 

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Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

Said another every prospect ever who had other legit NFL prospects sharing the field with him. A lot of people though Lavar Arrington was a product of Courtney Brown. Brown went #1 overall in a great draft and was straight trash. Hell, plenty though that Peppers was a product of Ryan Sims at UNC. Peppers is going to the HOF. Sims was trash.

If there's a guy I'm questioning eight now it's Lawrence. Ferrell and Wilkins didn't miss a beat without him.

Ah yes, that was you.

Like I said, I don't feel comfortable making a judgment on him at this point. It does make me a little nervous that I seem to hear a lot of people repeating that question.

Ultimately, if we end up taking him, I'm gonna be hoping that you're right and they're wrong.

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3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Ah yes, that was you.

Like I said, I don't feel comfortable making a judgment on him at this point. It does make me a little nervous that I seem to hear a lot of people repeating that question.

Ultimately, if we end up taking him, I'm gonna be hoping that you're right and they're wrong.

The sad fact is that for a guy to be there at #16 at a premium position there has to be some questions about him.

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Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

How isn't DT a major need? 

Define DT.

Or more specifically, define what defensive system we're going to be running. Then define DT.

If we need a 3-4 nose guard, I know there are people that think Poe is better suited to that position but I'm just not buying in. If we're talking 3-4 DE, those are fairly equivalent to 4-3 DTs.

I'm honestly still not sure how seriously to take the 3-4 talk. It starting to sound like it's serious, though. Sooo...

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Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

The sad fact is that for a guy to be there at #16 at a premium position there has to be some questions about him.

No argument.

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1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Define DT.

Or more specifically, define what defensive system we're going to be running. Then define DT.

If we need a 3-4 nose guard, I know there are people that think Poe is better suited to that position but I'm just not buying in. If we're talking 3-4 DE, those are fairly equivalent to 4-3 DTs.

I'm honestly still not sure how seriously to take the 3-4 talk. It starting to sound like it's serious, though. Sooo...

Either or. Poe looked bad and has a high cap hit. Short looked bad and has a REALLY high cap hit. Both are going to be on the wrong side of 30. Butler is a bust. Picking a DT would not he unjustified in the least.

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5 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Either or. Poe looked bad and has a high cap hit. Short looked bad and has a REALLY high cap hit. Both are going to be on the wrong side of 30. Butler is a bust. Picking a DT would not he unjustified in the least.

There's a masochistic little part of me that wonders whether Butler would work as a 3-4 DE. However, since I believe that his problem is more poor attitude than lack of ability, it's probably not that worth checking on.

Short? I've said it before. Evaluating talent isn't just about judging how good someone is. It's equally about predicting how long they're going to be good.

You gotta love when something that's pretty much impossible to do is a major part of your job description.

Edited by Mr. Scot

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1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

There's a masochistic little part of me that wonders whether Butler would work as a 3-4 DE. However, since I believe that his problem is more poor attitude than lack of ability, it's probably not that worth checking on.

Short? I've said it before. Evaluating talent isn't just about judging how good someone is. It's equally about predicting how long they're going to be good.

You gotta love when something that's pretty much impossible to do is a major part of your job description.

I think Butler just sucks. He was a big fish in a small pond. He looked good against midmajor talent. When he tested out athletically like a JAG that should've been a big red flag. I'm usually not a workout worshipper, but I do think they're more important for small school guys to see if their athleticism measures up or if they just looked good due to poor competition.

5.33 40, 29" vertical, 26 reps, subpar competition. Everything about the guy screamed that he was a borderline at best NFL talent. 

One of the chief criticisms I have of Gettleman is that the guy didn't seem to factor in "want to". Lots of his high round draft picks and re-signings seem to suffer from lack of want to.

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1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I think Butler just sucks. He was a big fish in a small pond. He looked good against midmajor talent. When he tested out athletically like a JAG that should've been a big red flag. I'm usually not a workout worshipper, but I do think they're more important for small school guys to see if their athleticism measures up or if they just looked good due to poor competition.

5.33 40, 29" vertical, 26 reps, subpar competition. Everything about the guy screamed that he was a borderline at best NFL talent. 

One of the chief criticisms I have of Gettleman is that the guy didn't seem to factor in "want to". Lots of his high round draft picks and re-signings seem to suffer from lack of want to.

This is one where we disagree.

My theory on Butler has long been that when he was drafted, he expected to be a starter. Then Short shocked us all and signed his contract and suddenly Butler was a backup, and not happy about it, so he started half-assing.

Stupid way to respond of course, but it's not like all of these guys are brain surgeons.

Though hey, at least in that case there's something to point to. Kony Ealy? Not a clue.

The whole thing about his little sister had me expecting he'd be busting his ass all day every day. And the Super Bowl made it look like he'd arrived.

After that? Wish I knew.

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12 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

This is one where we disagree.

My theory on Butler has long been that when he was drafted, he expected to be a starter. Then Short shocked us all and signed his contract and suddenly Butler was a backup, and not happy about it, so he started half-assing.

Stupid way to respond of course, but it's not like all of these guys are brain surgeons.

Though hey, at least in that case there's something to point to. Kony Ealy? Not a clue.

The whole thing about his little sister had me expecting he'd be busting his ass all day every day. And the Super Bowl made it look like he'd arrived.

After that? Wish I knew.

I think way too much is made about "starting" along the DL. That's the one position group where reserves can play near starter snaps due to rotations. Butler just wasn't good enough. Nagging injuries didn't do him any favors but it's not like the guy looked like a stud when he was healthy. I'm not a big fan of small school linemen simply because it's easy to look good as a lineman when you're a lot more physically talented than your competion, but Gettleman got it right with Moton. He swung and missed badly with Butler. He did that a lot with high picks on the DL after the Star/Short double dip. Butler was a 1st round bust, Early 2nd round, Hall 3rd round. Those three busts and licking Short > Star to re-sign (a move I agreed with at the time) largely created our current DL crisis.

I know you love you some Gettleman and I didn't think he should've been fired, but in hindsight it was justified. Bringing Hurney back certainly wasn't though.

Edited by LinvilleGorge

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2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

This is one where we disagree.

My theory on Butler has long been that when he was drafted, he expected to be a starter. Then Short shocked us all and signed his contract and suddenly Butler was a backup, and not happy about it, so he started half-assing.

Stupid way to respond of course, but it's not like all of these guys are brain surgeons.

Though hey, at least in that case there's something to point to. Kony Ealy? Not a clue.

The whole thing about his little sister had me expecting he'd be busting his ass all day every day. And the Super Bowl made it look like he'd arrived.

After that? Wish I knew.

It’s one thing to throw out some bizarre baseless theory where a rookie is pissed off that his starting job wasn’t handed to him (when does that ever happen?)...but then to use that baseless theory to explicitly attack that player’s intelligence? Umm what?

”Yeah ummm...I have a theory that DJ Moore was pulled over for speeding cause he was hurrying on his way to cheat on his girlfriend with another woman. What a despicable young man with a lack of morals...can’t believe we would draft a guy like that”.

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12 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I think way too much is made abour "starting" along the DL. That's the on position group where reserves can play near starter snaps die to rotations. Butler just wasn't good enough. Nagging injuries didn't do him any favors but it's not like the guy looked like a stud when he was healthy. I'm not a big fan of small school linemen simply because it's easy to look good as a lineman when you're a lot more physically talented than your competion, but Gettleman got it right with Moton. He swung and missed badly with Butler. He did that a lot with high picks on the DL after the Star/Short double dip. Butler was a 1st round bust, Early 2nd round, Hall 3rd round. Those three busts and licking Short > Star to re-sign (a move I agreed with at the time) largely created our current DL crisis.

I know you love you some Gettleman and I didn't think he should've been fired, but in hindsight it was justified. Bringing Hurney back certainly wasn't though.

Disagree there. He made mistakes, but he also did a good job recovering from them. I think if he'd have had a chance to run the rest of last season and the past offseason, we could be in a lot better shape.

It's kind of like watching how the Patriots work. Lord knows they pull some boneheaded moves, but the end result always seems to work out. If you look at it on the small scale, you're scratching your head, but the big picture looks good.

C'est la vie, though. Richardson done what he did, and here we are.

My wishful thinking is that we somehow steal Kevin Colbert from the Steelers after this season, but I'd also be happy with Joe Douglas. The trouble with Douglas is that it's speculated he's tied to Jim Schwartz. Not as big a fan of that idea.

Edited by Mr. Scot

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7 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

It’s one thing to throw out some bizarre baseless theory where a rookie is pissed off that his starting job wasn’t handed to him (when does that ever happen?)...but then to use that baseless theory to explicitly attack that player’s intelligence? Umm what?

”Yeah ummm...I have a theory that DJ Moore was pulled over for speeding cause he was hurrying on his way to cheat on his girlfriend with another woman. What a despicable young man with a lack of morals...can’t believe we would draft a guy like that”.

Hush, child. The adults are talking.

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