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Panthero

Confused about moving to a 3-4

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1 hour ago, XClown1986 said:

I don't think some people have considered that we may be going to more of a Wade Phillips hybrid 3-4 where the size of the DTs and DEs is less important.

Yes this is what I believe we are going to.  The inside guys are almost normal 4-3 where they interchange DE’s for 3-4 OLB’s. 

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3 hours ago, AU-panther said:

I have been saying this for awhile.  If you watch film from the end of last year you will see that they often played Butler at NT and Cox sometimes at DE when they went to 3-4.  There were times that Butler also lined up at end. 
 

I could see something like Short, Poe, Butler on running downs and Short, Butler, Cox on passing downs.

Either way if we are really going to a 3-4 you could make the argument that 3-4 DEs are as big of a need as anything we have on DE.

Look at it this way, what is the biggest position to upgrade:

3-4 OLB-Addison

3-4 OLB-Irvin

3-4 DE-Cox/Butler

So we are playing Poe 9 mil a year to just play rushing downs. That's ridiculous!

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Bryan Cox Jr is 260lbs. That is the size of the Ravens OLB. He isn't big enough to play 3-4 end. KK will be great at that spot. We have two NT but who needs two? The opposite end position is a big hole. Ideal pick for that spot IMO is Christian Wilkins from Clemson. If he is there and all of the other elite pass rushers are gone then he SHOULD be the pick. He could play 4-3 DT beside KK or move outside to play 3-4 end. He'd be a star. 

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7 hours ago, AU-panther said:

I have been saying this for awhile.  If you watch film from the end of last year you will see that they often played Butler at NT and Cox sometimes at DE when they went to 3-4.  There were times that Butler also lined up at end. 
 

I could see something like Short, Poe, Butler on running downs and Short, Butler, Cox on passing downs.

Either way if we are really going to a 3-4 you could make the argument that 3-4 DEs are as big of a need as anything we have on DE.

Look at it this way, what is the biggest position to upgrade:

3-4 OLB-Addison

3-4 OLB-Irvin

3-4 DE-Cox/Butler

Hence the reason we are looking at DTs as well as DEs in the draft. DTs in the draft would likely play a DE role in our 3-4 hybrid and DT in our 4-3 rotation. We want as much flexibility as we can get.

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9 hours ago, countryboi said:

I really dont like the idea that we are moving to a 3-4, i get the feeling that the Panthers want enough versatile players to play any defense they want based on the situation. 

We’re definitely not moving to a strictly 3-4. It will be a mixed look defense based on matchups like Belichick and Seattle, among other teams, do.

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Thanks for the responses all. If we only playing 3-4 in certain spots then I'm less worried. I thought (in my ignorance) that it was a full move. 

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Undersized defensive lines that sacrifice size for speed, particularly at the NT position, have been successful in College. App State has run with this and been Top 15 in total defense the past three seasons. It didn't seem all that successful against Penn State toward the end of the game but speed creates chaos on a defense. It worked against Tennessee and created fair success against Georgia. The theory could work in the NFL because the talent gap is much, much smaller. 

We will see what the plan is but I believe that it wouldn't be a bad experiment to run with. 

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2 minutes ago, CPcavedweller said:

Undersized defensive lines that sacrifice size for speed, particularly at the NT position, have been successful in College. App State has run with this and been Top 15 in total defense the past three seasons. It didn't seem all that successful against Penn State toward the end of the game but speed creates chaos on a defense. It worked against Tennessee and created fair success against Georgia. The theory could work in the NFL because the talent gap is much, much smaller. 

We will see what the plan is but I believe that it wouldn't be a bad experiment to run with. 

The problem with a 3-4 in general is difficulty stopping the run. Now compound the problem with undersized linemen and a team like Dallas would pound it down your throat all day. No that would be a bad idea unless you used it as a subpackage on strictly passing downs.

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14 hours ago, countryboi said:

I really dont like the idea that we are moving to a 3-4, i get the feeling that the Panthers want enough versatile players to play any defense they want based on the situation. 

I love both defenses. And honestly, most 3-4s in the league are hybrids now. I'm genuinely excited to see Rivera build a hybrid 3-4 defense. One of the most qualified men in the NFL to do it. 

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13 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

Sadly, it has been a while since KK showed much of anything. Those big paychecks in his wallet have slowed him down mightily.

Awww. Yes. Pathetic he isn't having career seasons every season now that he's getting paid. fuging bum. 

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10 hours ago, steven8989 said:

So we are playing Poe 9 mil a year to just play rushing downs. That's ridiculous!

That is a value for defense tackle, whether you like it or not. 

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12 hours ago, steven8989 said:

So we are playing Poe 9 mil a year to just play rushing downs. That's ridiculous!

You are criticizing the pay of a guy based on the assumption of a fan. There is a disconnect 

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20 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

Sadly, it has been a while since KK showed much of anything. Those big paychecks in his wallet have slowed him down mightily.

Two things come to mind---KK needs Star or maybe Poe is a bad influence.

NT is the spot  that nobody is talking about but we need an upgrade over Poe. 

I want an Edge OLB, NT, S, and CB for Christmas in April.  (OG, OT on offense)

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37 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Two things come to mind---KK needs Star or maybe Poe is a bad influence.

NT is the spot  that nobody is talking about but we need an upgrade over Poe. 

I want an Edge OLB, NT, S, and CB for Christmas in April.  (OG, OT on offense)

Luckily that nose tackle can be found in the 4-7 round. Guy from USF or Syracuse are both 330 plus and one will be there in the sixth. Both could replace Butler and eventually Poe once his dead cap hit goes down. Too rich to cut this year. 2020 seems likely though. We'd save 10 mil, and eat 3.3 regardless of pre or post June 1st deadline. 

I go early wouldn't mind taking two this year, cut butler now, then cut poe in 2020. 

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8 hours ago, pantherclaw said:

Awww. Yes. Pathetic he isn't having career seasons every season now that he's getting paid. fuging bum. 

He's been having middle of the pack seasons at best since then. The phrase you're looking for is "not living up to the contract."

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