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rodeo

democratic primary candidates thread

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12 minutes ago, Fryfan said:

Can anyone provide a better measure between bourgeois and the proletariat then a measure of wealth?    Generational property ownership stocks etc. why is this not the measure 

 

the future should not be indentured by college fees and medical bills.   We move beyond that. 
 

taxes and debt forgiveness is wealth based. 

I’ma newbie to this so I might have it wrong, but it seems that means testing does two things:

 create an undue administrative burden in order to execute said means test... which can be cheated and loopholed

 and denies the universality of that benefit

 and I guess a third thing that the bar can be raised or lowered by politicians at whim when universality is in total

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2 minutes ago, rodeo said:

in your opinion has means testing made welfare better, or worse? is it easier or harder to get for the people who need it?

I don’t endorse in any way to mean test FOR relief.    Language education commitments legal status all make barriers. 
 

rellief is a given. Assets records on files are deniers 

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5 minutes ago, Moorgan said:

create an undue administrative burden in order to execute said means test... which can be cheated and loopholed

A cheat can hide assets in many ways. That is known. It should be a higher burden to move those assets. 
 

asset records are public  as I said before relief is default   Assets deny.  
 

Voter registration is default. Proof to remove is the burden which should be damn overwhelming We have that backwards also. 

Edited by Fryfan

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Are we in agreement that capital gains should be taxed at normal rates?   That this“ loophole“ needs closing?  
 

unrealized gains are important. Held assets are. Our structure should base off all of this. 

Edited by Fryfan
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16 minutes ago, Fryfan said:

A cheat can hide assets in many ways. That is known. It should be a higher burden to move those assets. 
 

asset records are public  as I said before relief is default   Assets deny.  
 

Voter registration is default. Proof to remove is the burden which should be damn overwhelming We have that backwards also. 

I literally am lost if that’s your reply to what I said. I’m perfectly ok with not getting it. I don’t get it.

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Just to try to further clarify my position that starting today our system should be uprooted and flattened. 
 

education, healthcare, job security, living wages, voting rights  etc all are givens. There are no barriers to anyone   Corporations are Co-operations  workers own there piece and share in its success  

the problem of the past needs addressing.  We address it from the top the down. The current starts at baseline the historical disenfranchised who were most hurt are given the boost. We look at assets carried mostly by generations and adjust those boosts powering the bottom up. 

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23 minutes ago, Moorgan said:

I literally am lost if that’s your reply to what I said. I’m perfectly ok with not getting it. I don’t get it.

I honestly get communication in this type of forum is not my strong suit.  
 

I can articulate better in a conversational setting. In which I can clarify easier when my communication fails to convey my point. 
 

means testing was the wrong phrase. Asset data known via public record should be a wealth calculation that determines fixing past ills by letting those that have always had/have a safety net hold at third base while those on first get the boost. 
 

College tuition should be a thing of the past.  A ADOS has more barriers then tuition keeping them from obtaining that education. Part of reparations should be a living wage stipend to descendants of slaves while attending college as part of a reparation package. If that can be done more easily by me paying off my student debt because I have assets to fall back on that needs to happen. 

Edited by Fryfan

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fryfan idk why you are choosing the obviously failed means testing as a hill to die on

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1 minute ago, TheBlue said:

fryfan idk why you are choosing the obviously failed means testing as a hill to die on

I clarified hopefully. See above. 

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1 minute ago, Fryfan said:

I clarified hopefully. See above. 

you generally miss the point that the people with the assets you are trying to hold on third arent taking/havent taken student loans. in your mind how are you holding them at third here?

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9 minutes ago, TheBlue said:

you generally miss the point that the people with the assets you are trying to hold on third arent taking/havent taken student loans. in your mind how are you holding them at third here?

My wife and I both got master degrees. We have at this time About 100k in loan debt.   There is no reason for us to miss any payments. Interest needs to be zero but only a medical or a type of catastrophic event would cause us to need relief on those loans. Medical is an absolute removal in being a catastrophic event. 
 

maybe we are on second. We can move slower to third then those on first. 
 

holding them at third is a uproot of ownership class. 

Edited by Fryfan

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1 minute ago, Fryfan said:

My wife and I both got master degrees. We have at this time About 100k in loan debt.   There is no reason for us to miss any payments. Interest needs to be zero but medical or a type of catastrophic event would cause us to need relief. Medical is an absolute removal in being a catastrophic event. 
 

maybe we are on second. We can move slower to third then those on first. 

or hear me out on this... everyone gets their loans wiped and the economy booms as a result. more people how cash to spend. more goods and services our exchanged. more tax revenue is created. money then is removed as a barrier for entry and peoples lives get better. there is more upward mobility. you allow people to catch up to those on third by taxing tf out of the uber wealthy. not by means testing 

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4 minutes ago, TheBlue said:

more people how cash to spend. more goods and services our exchanged. more tax revenue is created. money then is removed as a barrier for entry and peoples lives get better. there is more upward mobility

Yes yes yes.  
 

proof of this type of stimulus shows those in need boost greatly and rise up everyone. 
 

those with little or no need up their investments. 
 

I read sometime ago the curve of how stimulus works. The lower middle class putting 1.30 into the system for every dollar received. The curve swings way down as you move up the classes. 
 

I said means testing was the wrong phrase. 

Edited by Fryfan

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Just now, Fryfan said:

Yes yes yes.  
 

proof of this type of stimulus shows those in need boost greatly and rise up everyone. 
 

those with little or no need up their investments. 
 

I read sometime ago the curve of how stimulus works. The lower middle class putting 1.30 into the system for every dollar received. The curve swings way down as you move up the classes. 

yes you tax the piss out of them. while you wipe out student loans. this besides foreign policy is the easiest thing for bernie to do day one. 

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2 minutes ago, TheBlue said:

yes you tax the piss out of them. while you wipe out student loans. this besides foreign policy is the easiest thing for bernie to do day one. 

Tax based on wealth not income. Relief on wealth.  
 

baseline reset taking college tuition healthcare fees ownership clsss dismantled. Etc. 

 

btw Bernie sets the course but without bernie like waves in congress we only get so far. 

Edited by Fryfan

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