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Proudiddy

Gettleman is getting absolutely destroyed by national media... STILL

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1 minute ago, MasterAwesome said:

Okay fair enough, but then why are you throwing in little asides like “Hurney benefited from Gettleman’s players but still failed”? Isn’t this the same point people are making about Gettleman when they say he benefited from Hurney’s core during his success? But you seem to have issue with people when they say that.

Also, you are highly critical of Hurney but most of your criticisms revolve around his first stint with the Panthers. He justifiably deserves criticism for that, but do you not acknowledge that he seems to be making smarter moves this time around? I think many of us are cautiously optimistic about “Hurney 2.0”, but your mind seems to already be made up about him setting our franchise up for failure. You can point to last season’s record, but as many people have already stated, our downfall can largely be attributed to the deterioration of Cam’s shoulder...which you are on record as stating is a big concern. If our roster was capable enough to start 6-2, then I wouldn’t attribute poor roster management to our downfall...it appeared to be a combination of Cam’s shoulder plus inept defensive playcalling from our first-year defensive coordinator.

Gettleman did benefit from good players that Hurney left behind. He also was saddled with bad ones and a horrible cap situation. That's why crediting his success to Marty Hurney is stupid.

Marty Hurney likewise benefited from good players that Dave Gettleman left behind. He was also saddled with problems like Matt Kalil. But as before, any success or failure from 2018 forward is Hurney's alone.

The 2017 season is the one oddity because all of the offseason work was done by Gettleman. Crediting Hurney for that success would be like having one member of a wrestling tag team do all the work in a match, having the second guy tag in just to make the pin and then saying it was the second guy who won it.

Bottom Line: I want this team to win championships, and I don't trust the combination of Marty Hurney and Ron Rivera to do it.

It's not that complicated.

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7 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Anyone who has the slightest bit of football knowledge knew Gettleman was a disaster. He’s a megalomaniac that’s stuck in his old ways, he thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room at all times when in reality he’s usually the most clueless.

I've seen your posts. You don't qualify as somebody who "has the slightest bit of football knowledge"... or any of it.

Heck, we know from past experience that you don't even watch the games.

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Im just glad he’s gone, and if we suffer another losing season, I’ll be glad to see Hurney go.

I just want consistency, and neither have shown the ability to build teams that are consistent 

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31 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

No other team in the league thought Marty Hurney was worth hiring for even so much as a regional scout position.

But Jerry Richardson... Oy :eyeroll:

the panthers are like the kid from high school that never left their hometown.

i like the idea that this team needs to move on from its old ways to get anywhere in the future, the sooner the better. when we re-hired marty, it was a regression back to the old ways. what comes after gettleman for this organization to continue to grow? not fuging marty hurney. we’re retreading over the same old paths that led us to plateau and nowhere else. these last two offseasons haven’t swayed me an inch. 

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57 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

The thing to is that you have to look at their success as a combination. Rivera was a winning coach under Gettleman. Under Hurney, not so much.

Why? I'd say it's because Gettleman and Rivera had complementary strengths and weaknesses. Hurney and Rivera, on the other hand, seem to be weak in some of the same areas.

If we're talking personally, I think Rivera and Hurney are both really nice guys. Unfortunately, I also think neither of them is very good at their jobs, and the combination of the two of them looks a lot more ready to fail than to succeed.

As an aside, if the Giants succeed or fail it will be due to Gettleman and Shurmur as a combination, not just the two of them as individuals. That's how it works.

Hope I'm wrong about Hurney/Rivera, but we'll see.

If Rivera isn't good at his job what does that say about the coaching talent in the NFL? Hurney has his faults and has had bad drafts before and him going along with Richardson to a fault was a major issue last time he was a GM. Also the reason he got rehired in the first place. 

 

The lack of youth from a lack of draft selections under Gettleman was leading this team down a very precarious path. Couple that with the Kalil contract  (god what an awful contract, almost as bad as the Delhomme contract in terms of value and impact) and other blunders.  Had Gettleman been allowed to stay on, I believe we would be in the same spot with needing to retool the defense completely as they just did in this draft and FA. 

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17 minutes ago, AggieLean said:

Im just glad he’s gone, and if we suffer another losing season, I’ll be glad to see Hurney go.

I just want consistency, and neither have shown the ability to build teams that are consistent 

I seriously doubt that Hurney and Rivera will be let go if they have another loosing season. Unless it's just good awful dreadful, probably going to have both back for one last season.

I said it earlier in the off-season, the whole 3-4 switch was either a Tepper move or Rivera buying time. Either way when you commit to a defense change like that it takes time. If the team goes 7-9 or 8-8, maybe even 6-10 depending on the circumstances and they'll be back. 

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1 minute ago, carpanfan96 said:

If Rivera isn't good at his job what does that say about the coaching talent in the NFL? Hurney has his faults and has had bad drafts before and him going along with Richardson to a fault was a major issue last time he was a GM. Also the reason he got rehired in the first place. 

The lack of youth from a lack of draft selections under Gettleman was leading this team down a very precarious path. Couple that with the Kalil contract  (god what an awful contract, almost as bad as the Delhomme contract in terms of value and impact) and other blunders.  Had Gettleman been allowed to stay on, I believe we would be in the same spot with needing to retool the defense completely as they just did in this draft and FA. 

The difference being that if we were in that spot, I would have had some trust in Dave Gettleman to fix it, justified given that he fixed Marty's mess.

I don't trust Marty Hurney anywhere near that much, and that's a judgment that his history justifies as well.

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4 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

I seriously doubt that Hurney and Rivera will be let go if they have another loosing season. Unless it's just good awful dreadful, probably going to have both back for one last season.

I said it earlier in the off-season, the whole 3-4 switch was either a Tepper move or Rivera buying time. Either way when you commit to a defense change like that it takes time. If the team goes 7-9 or 8-8, maybe even 6-10 depending on the circumstances and they'll be back. 

I'm not at all convinced they can survive two losing seasons in a row. if they do, I'd say the fans honeymoon with David Tepper will be unequivocally over.

I also don't buy that Tepper mandated the 3-4 thing. I see that as a desperation move by Rivera.

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wow, there are still people who think g'man is a good gm.  wow.  well there's anti-vaxxers and flat earthers so why not.  we haven't yet found the limits of human stupidity.   

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Just now, Mr. Scot said:

I'm not at all convinced they can survive two losing seasons in a row.

I also don't buy that Tepper mandated the 3-4 thing. I see that as a desperation move by Rivera.

I don't think it was either, I think it was a Rivera thing because of the success they had running it the last few weeks of the season. 

 

Tepper signed off on it though when they met up in NJ early in the off-season. I'd assume Tepper reasearched this before saying yes, but everyone knows major changes like that take time. 

 

Usually takes 2-3 seasons to fully convert, so I don't see any way he committed to that change not knowing there would be some serious growing pains on defense making that conversion. Also with all the unknowns with Cam's shoulder, I don't think it's completely out of question that both survive another loosing season if the defense improves or shows signs of improvement if something else keeps them from winning. "Say a major injury or Cam's shoulder not being 100%..ext.."

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3 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

That 2011 draft outside of Newton is "gouge your eyes out" worthy.

The 2012 one other than Luke isn't exactly special either (Joe Adams in particular) but at least it wasn't as bad as the year before.

 

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

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Just now, carpanfan96 said:

I don't think it was either, I think it was a Rivera thing because of the success they had running it the last few weeks of the season. 

Tepper signed off on it though when they met up in NJ early in the off-season. I'd assume Tepper reasearched this before saying yes, but everyone knows major changes like that take time. 

Usually takes 2-3 seasons to fully convert, so I don't see any way he committed to that change not knowing there would be some serious growing pains on defense making that conversion. Also with all the unknowns with Cam's shoulder, I don't think it's completely out of question that both survive another loosing season if the defense improves or shows signs of improvement if something else keeps them from winning. "Say a major injury or Cam's shoulder not being 100%..ext.."

I think you'd have to admit though that if they do survive another bad season, fans are going to revolt.

Right now, the two of them both have contracts for two more years. They've done nothing to justify extending those contracts, and I don't have a lot of faith that they will.

There's also a little part of me that wonders if Tepper is just waiting for Kevin Colbert's contract to run out (next year, I think) so that he can try and lure him down here, but that's sheer speculation.

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9 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

 

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

And Cordy Glenn was the very next pick to Buffalo.

This year it was Greg Little in the second, with Cody Ford going the next pick to Buffalo.

I really, really hope this is not a case of history repeating itself.

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10 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I think you'd have to admit though that if they do survive another bad season, fans are going to revolt.

Right now, the two of them both have contracts for two more years. They've done nothing to justify extending those contracts, and I don't have a lot of faith that they will.

There's also a little part of me that wonders if Tepper is just waiting for Kevin Colbert's contract to run out (next year, I think) so that he can try and lure him down here, but that's sheer speculation.

Oh yeah fans would revolt for sure, I have no doubt about it. Hell some fans revolted when he came back and then was hired full time. (Understandably so and justified as well) I honestly don't think Tepper will be too overly concerned about it with the Dynamics of the team being what it is. 

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4 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

Oh yeah fans would revolt for sure, I have no doubt about it. Hell some fans revolted when he came back and then was hired full time. (Understandably so and justified as well) I honestly don't think Tepper will be too overly concerned about it with the Dynamics of the team being what it is. 

Not so sure. Tepper definitely pays more attention to what fans think than Richardson did. A lot of his marketing moves make that pretty obvious. whether he'd let them affect him to the point of making a football decision is another story, of course.

On the flipside, he also cares about winning. Jerry Richardson didn't care enough about it to fire people that he liked. I'm not sure if that's Tepper or not, but I guess we'll find out.

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Gettleman has proven that he cannot win without Rivera.

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