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1 hour ago, Toomers said:

   What if you were “pounding the table” to trade up and take Reid the second after the DJ pick was announced? That’s not hindsight. 

And not investing much at Safety is the problem. That’s the difference between a solid option and a “potentially good down the road” option. Which leaves us where we are

I do disagree with the way the organization disregards safety; I'm just saying that it's wishful thinking based on that to think we would actually trade up for one. 

I think most of us were pulling for Justin Reid to land with us.  It's just hard to know when we should have pulled the trigger on a trade. What would we have had top give up? Ian Thomas? If he turns into the heir apparent of Olsen and Gaulden turns into a serviceable starter, we're probably better off not making that trade. 

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1 hour ago, top dawg said:

There is just too much nitpicking, second guessing and speculation in your post for my taste. Every GM every year can be nitpicked and second-guessed. There really is no perfect draft, and I think that holding a GM to such high standards based upon what you want is just being contentious for no reason. A good rule of thumb (which is an opinion, though pretty much accepted by NFL types) is that if you can get a couple of long time starters out of a draft, you're doing pretty good. Getting three, four and/or five is really good. 

Sure, Gaulden may not work as a safety (but he might), but fortunately he has experience playing as a slot corner also (and arguably was markedly good at it during his final year at Tennessee), so perhaps his perceived versatility was deemed more valuable than you like, but rightly or wrongly it is very much coveted by Rivera. I'm going to give Gaulden the benefit of doubt until proven otherwise. 

As for Thomas, no way he would have lasted. I kept hearing his name come up at the end of day two as one one of the hot picks at the beginning of day three. And l certainly think that much like Thomas has strong potential to outplay his actual draft position, Miller is in that same class. I'm grateful to have both of them and glad that Hurney didn't outthink himself by getting cute.

Ok. Never mind. You didn’t really read my post at all. I liked Thomas before the draft (in threads here, some of us liked Kittle the year before) and I loved the Miller pick. I didn’t say I wouldn’t have tried to get either of them. Just because we make one move doesn’t mean we can’t still go after others (don’t pick Haynes or Grier) we like and I’m not even saying Hurney did bad overall. I just don’t like Gaulden and I loved Reid and I’m 99.9% sure we should have worked harder to get him. I don’t care if you don’t like the nitpicking either. It’s a Panthers forum. If you guys got your  wish about no decision second guessed then we’d have nothing to talk about. 

Also, versatility is great if you are Moton’s level where you are NFL good enough at more than one spot. I don’t think Gaulden is good enough for either. A slot CB has to be quick and change direction well. Gaulden had a 3 cone time worse than all other CBs and all but 1 S. His short shuttle was better than 6 other DBs. 3 were undrafted, 1 7th, 1 5th and 1 4th (who also ran a 4.36 40, 0.25 better). His 40 was better than 10 DBs and all the other 10 went undrafted. See a pattern here? Gaulden is about as unathletic as UDFA. Just based on analytics, the chance that he’s a good or even decent NFL player is slim to none unless he’s the Tom Brady of CBs.

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50 minutes ago, Peon Awesome said:

I do disagree with the way the organization disregards safety; I'm just saying that it's wishful thinking based on that to think we would actually trade up for one. 

I think most of us were pulling for Justin Reid to land with us.  It's just hard to know when we should have pulled the trigger on a trade. What would we have had top give up? Ian Thomas? If he turns into the heir apparent of Olsen and Gaulden turns into a serviceable starter, we're probably better off not making that trade. 

  Then it isn’t “hindsight”. It’s being right in saying we made the wrong decision. Just like debating any pick in any draft. Why is that so horrible to discuss? I ranted for a year because Gettleman traded away Carl Lawson And Eddie Jackson for Daeshaun Hall. As it happened until now. Why follow any of it if you can’t give an honest opinion of what you see?

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2 hours ago, stbugs said:

Ok. Never mind. You didn’t really read my post at all. I liked Thomas before the draft (in threads here, some of us liked Kittle the year before) and I loved the Miller pick. I didn’t say I wouldn’t have tried to get either of them. Just because we make one move doesn’t mean we can’t still go after others (don’t pick Haynes or Grier) we like and I’m not even saying Hurney did bad overall. I just don’t like Gaulden and I loved Reid and I’m 99.9% sure we should have worked harder to get him. I don’t care if you don’t like the nitpicking either. It’s a Panthers forum. If you guys got your  wish about no decision second guessed then we’d have nothing to talk about. 

Also, versatility is great if you are Moton’s level where you are NFL good enough at more than one spot. I don’t think Gaulden is good enough for either. A slot CB has to be quick and change direction well. Gaulden had a 3 cone time worse than all other CBs and all but 1 S. His short shuttle was better than 6 other DBs. 3 were undrafted, 1 7th, 1 5th and 1 4th (who also ran a 4.36 40, 0.25 better). His 40 was better than 10 DBs and all the other 10 went undrafted. See a pattern here? Gaulden is about as unathletic as UDFA. Just based on analytics, the chance that he’s a good or even decent NFL player is slim to none unless he’s the Tom Brady of CBs.

And just because we make all the moves you want doesn't mean the players would have been there either. 

Go ahead and nitpick. It seems like you'd at least wait for results before saying how terrible a player will probably be and declaring him a wasted pick (regardless of the Underwear Olympics and/or SPARQ ratings). It takes all kinds to make a forum go 'round.

BTW: for the record, I thought we'd pick a safety (maybe even Reid). Hell, I thought we'd pick one this year, but we didn't. We didn't lose because we didn't draft a safety last year, and I am 99.9% sure that we're not going to lose this year because we didn't draft a safety.  Maybe we'll draft one next year.

Edited by top dawg

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14 hours ago, Toomers said:

  Then it isn’t “hindsight”. It’s being right in saying we made the wrong decision. Just like debating any pick in any draft. Why is that so horrible to discuss? I ranted for a year because Gettleman traded away Carl Lawson And Eddie Jackson for Daeshaun Hall. As it happened until now. Why follow any of it if you can’t give an honest opinion of what you see?

It's not horrible to discuss. I think it's a good topic. My original post was criticizing stbugs for ridiculing people who are holding out hope that Gaulden might put it together this year. I have no problem with a healthy debate.

It's still probably too early to say for sure we made the wrong decision. Sure it's looking that way but as others have said, Gaulden has had a steep learning curve. Let's at least give him another year before we conclude that it was a big mistake not trading up for Reid over Gaulden. Gaulden might prove to be a serviceable starter, or heck, Reid might make an all-pro team while Gaulden gets benched for Colin Jones and then we really f'ed up. I just think we have to give mid-round picks a couple years before we finalize the verdict. You're probably right, but I think if you're a Panthers fan, you're also hoping that you're wrong.

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