Jump to content
Carolina Huddle
  • Hey There!

    Please register to see fewer ads and a better viewing experience:100_Emoji_42x42:

pennywise

Here’s what I see MJ doing

Recommended Posts

20 minutes ago, Stoney said:

I am not "missing" anything.  Everything is a projection until the books are formally closed but big businesses are experts at "projecting" earnings down to the penny on a quarterly basis.  The NBA are a sophisticated big business and know exactly what is going on with the league and within each team, in the past, and in the future.   

In order for this exercise to work we need to know that you understand the mechanics of how a partnership like NBA ownership works.  Without that building block you will not be able to follow along.

So, again...

What % of the team do you think MJ currently owns?  How has that changed since he bought the team?  Why do you think it changed?  How does this compare to the ownership changes/trends in Milwaukee?

We aren't going to agree on 2013-2014 so I am not sure why you continue to belabor that point. We have none of the raw data so it just boils down to belief in one source versus the other. 

There is no exercise. The exercise exists in your head only. I have no idea why you persist in this stupid game. You either have something to say or you don't. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


On 6/30/2019 at 1:54 PM, pennywise said:

Sign Terry Rozier like in what said in the other post. 

+

trade Monk, MKG/Marvin’s contracts, and future picks for Clint Capela, Eric Gordon or  Whiteside. 

 

Said it before, Jordan will never be content on having an empty arena. 

Hornets have interest in Quinn Cook, former Duke guard and leader of 2015 National Championship team. Has produced when given the time during the regular season. Lit up the G-League. Based on what I saw in the Finals, his defensive mistakes were mostly caused by the Warriors lack of continuity on defense due to injuries. Suspect that if he were given the time to actually develop with a team on a cheap 3-year deal he could develop into a quality 6th man/situational starter. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

We aren't going to agree on 2013-2014 so I am not sure why you continue to belabor that point. We have none of the raw data so it just boils down to belief in one source versus the other. 

There is no exercise. The exercise exists in your head only. I have no idea why you persist in this stupid game. You either have something to say or you don't. 

You and I personally don't have the data but Zach Lowe/Grantland sure do in the form of leaked NBA documents and they put it in writing, yet you don't want to believe it.  Forbes has nothing to back up their wildly inaccurate guess, yet you do want to believe it.  Odd.

You asked me to provide backup for getting the Bobnets to a quarter billion dollars in losses between 2006 and 2014, said you would "glad to see it" if I provided it.

I told you I would be happy to do so, but first I need to know that you have the ability to understand and interpret said information.

Based on your " make no mistake, he has already made his money" comment, combined with your unwillingness to answer a few simple questions about what % ownership MJ now has, how it has changed, why it has  changed, and how it compares to the Bucks....we can only conclude that you do not have the ability to understand and interpret what is really going on (on the business side anyway, basketball operations you do well with).

OK, I'm going to give you a hint...when Bob Johnson bought the team he owned 65%, and minority partners owned 35%.  His stated goal was to take his ownership position to 51% and have minority partners own 49% (this is what Richardson had with Panthers).

When Johnson sold the team he actually owned 80%, and minority partners owned 20%.  What do you think the catalyst was for this change?  Why didn't it go like Bob hoped it would?

Edited by Stoney

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This team was never more than a hobby and an ego booster for Jordan.   I'm not sure he cares about winning anymore, crazy from the fiercest competitor to play the game, but the mere fact of owning a team.      This city CAN have a profitable franchise.    In the 90's the Hornets had the highest attention rates in the entire league for many years.   Getting the Hornets name was a big boost that they screwed up with terrible decisions.   

 

  • Beer 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Stoney said:

You and I personally don't have the data but Zach Lowe/Grantland sure do in the form of leaked NBA documents and they put it in writing, yet you don't want to believe it.  Forbes has nothing to back up their wildly inaccurate guess, yet you do want to believe it.  Odd.

You asked me to provide backup for getting the Bobnets to a quarter billion dollars in losses between 2006 and 2014, said you would "glad to see it" if I provided it.

I told you I would be happy to do so, but first I need to know that you have the ability to understand and interpret said information.

Based on your " make no mistake, he has already made his money" comment, combined with your unwillingness to answer a few simple questions about what % ownership MJ now has, how it has changed, why it has  changed, and how it compares to the Bucks....we can only conclude that you do not have the ability to understand and interpret what is really going on (on the business side anyway, basketball operations you do well with).

OK, I'm going to give you a hint...when Bob Johnson bought the team he owned 65%, and minority partners owned 35%.  His stated goal was to take his ownership position to 51% and have minority partners own 49% (this is what Richardson had with Panthers).

When Johnson sold the team he actually owned 80%, and minority partners owned 20%.  What do you think the catalyst was for this change?  Why didn't it go like Bob hoped it would?

It was a memo, dipshit. Not a fuging audit. You are really struggling with some reading comprehension issues. Go back and actually read your own article.

You have also yet to provide any proof for your quarter billion dollar losses. Not surprising, it's also probably a figment of your imagination.  

But, by all means, keep having an odd quiz show with yourself about what you believe is happening. They make medication for that, BTW.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

It was a memo, dipshit. Not a fuging audit. You are really struggling with some reading comprehension issues. Go back and actually read your own article.

You have also yet to provide any proof for your quarter billion dollar losses. Not surprising, it's also probably a figment of your imagination.  

But, by all means, keep having an odd quiz show with yourself about what you believe is happening. They make medication for that, BTW.

So you are insisting that a "confidential memo the league (NBA headquarters) sent to all 30 teams (EVERY team) in early June. (Grantland has reviewed and verified the memo with a half-dozen sources.)"....

....was in error by OVER $35,000,000 as it relates to the Bobnets?

Do you really believe the NBA is that disorganized?

Edited by Stoney

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Stoney said:

So you are insisting that a "confidential memo the league (NBA headquarters) sent to all 30 teams (EVERY team) in early June. (Grantland has reviewed and verified the memo with a half-dozen sources.)"....

....was in error by OVER $35,000,000 as it relates to the Bobnets?

Do you really believe the NBA is that disorganized?

I believe it's a memo with a projection. As I have stated multitudes of times, we don't have the figures. Forbes is using all publicly available information to make an estimate(it is an estimate) and that NBA memo is based on a projection for the franchise. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

But, here we are again harping on this 2013-2014 season. Here is a good question for you; did that money come out of your pocket?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

I believe it's a memo with a projection. As I have stated multitudes of times, we don't have the figures. Forbes is using all publicly available information to make an estimate(it is an estimate) and that NBA memo is based on a projection for the franchise. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

But, here we are again harping on this 2013-2014 season. Here is a good question for you; did that money come out of your pocket?

Zach Lowe & Grantland do have the numbers -- directly from verified internal NBA documents.  The truth is the Bobcats lost over $30 million, just as was the case in prior years.

Do you really consider that to be a "good" question?

Question for you, why are you so intent on saying the team wasn't losing money?  If you were presented with additional evidence of the losses, what would your reaction be?

Edited by Stoney

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, let's get started here:

"The Bobcats’ operating losses have exceeded $30 million in recent seasons. Before the 2009-10 season began, internal projections anticipated similar losses over the next three years."

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:aAPT0gNqmNYJ:https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/stories/2010/03/08/story2.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-b-1-d

So, sentence 2 says going into the 2009 season operating losses are expected to exceed $30 million per year for the next 3 years, let's start adding that up:

2009-2010 = $30,000,000+ in losses

2010-2011 = $30,000,000+ in losses

2011-2012 = $30,000,000+ in losses

The implied losses were greater than $30,000,000/pa but let's just say $30mm was the ceiling, we are now up to $90,000,000 in losses.

Then, sentence 1 says losses have "exceeded" $30,000,000 in "recent seasons".....seasons, plural.  At a bare minimum that's 2 seasons (it's really every year since inception but we can revisit that later).  So let's add those to the total:

2007-2008 = $30,000,000+ in losses

2008-2009 = $30,000,000+ in losses

For those keeping score at home that's another $60,000,000 in losses (minimum) bringing the total to $150,000,000 in just 5 seasons.

So, when a business of this nature is losing that kind of money what effect do you feel it has on the partners?

Edited by Stoney

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So here's another one from 4-years earlier that illustrates the franchise was losing money from the get go:

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/stories/2006/06/05/story2.html?page=all

"The sudden departure of Charlotte Bobcats Chief Executive Ed Tapscott last week revealed a picture of a team in turmoil. It's a picture, it turns out, painted in red ink.

Interviews this week with several of the team's minority partners and other sources close to the team show the NBA franchise continues to hemorrhage cash, with little relief in sight."

"Sources close to the ownership group say tension and pressure are mounting as Johnson and his investors tire of the financial losses. The Bobcats decline to disclose or discuss financial performance and sales.

Johnson and his Bobcats partners have also invested additional money in capital calls to shore up the team's finances.

Asked about the capital calls, (Howard) Levine says, "Nobody likes that and nobody wants to hear that. I want to get a return (on investment). The sooner, the better. When you cut to the chase, we all want to see a return and we all want to win. That requires a good business plan."

 

Edited by Stoney

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Final message on this for today, a funny & famous quote from Bob Johnson in a 2006 interview with USA Today:

"No one has ever lost money on an NBA franchise, and I don't think anybody ever will," he said. "There are only 30 of them, and there will always be a greater fool out there looking to buy."

Whoops.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:q30D9YZ22DEJ:https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/2006-04-12-bet-robert-johnson_x.htm+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-b-1-d

Class dismissed for the holiday.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m totally pissed the year we get season tickets at $8500  a year.......... Kemba is gone........  it will be tough to keep me for the 2nd year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Episode 4:

Let's fast forward to 2 seasons ago (2016/2017) and take a look at the trends for the league generally speaking...

"Despite a flood of new national television cash, 14 of the NBA's 30 teams lost money last season before collecting revenue-sharing payouts, and nine finished in the red even after accounting for those payments, according to confidential NBA financial records obtained by ESPN.com."

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20747413/a-confidential-report-shows-nearly-half-nba-lost-money-last-season-now-what

The Bobnets were one of those teams (who lost money before revenue sharing).

After revenue sharing the number of teams who lost money was reduced to 9, from 14.....and the Bobnets were off the list, but, to suggest there were any "profits" of consequence for MJ or any of his few remaining partners to pocket would be a laughable assertion.  

Based on previous documentation we know the Bobnets lost in excess of $30 million every season from 2007 through 2011, and lost another $34 million in 2013 (net $12 million loss after $22 million in revenue sharing). 

And again, they lost money in 2016 prior to revenue sharing...

Let's recap, we have direct evidence of this team being unprofitable in the following years: 

2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2016

We also know the team lost LOTS of money in:

2004, 2005, 2006

Given that list, it would be illogical to think the team didn't lose money in:

2012, 2014, 2015

Now, there have been some offsets.....starting in 2012 the Bobnets did start to receive some pretty massive food-stamps (revenue sharing) payments....

....$21 million in 2012, $22 million in 2013, at least $15 million in 2014 and 2015....those add up to $73 million.

This is not a pretty picture, it's a picture of a business that is unhealthy and cannot stand on its own.  A quote from the article linked above:

 "....some teams have bristled about the current scale of monetary redistribution. "The need for revenue sharing was supposed to be for special circumstances," one large-market owner told ESPN.com, "not permanent subsidies."

Executive Summary of Episode 4:

The Bobnets are swimming as fast as possible just to keep their head above water.  There are no profits to distribute to MJ & partners.  In fact, they are out of pocket millions and millions and millions and many more millions over and above their initial investments.  

To be continued... 

PS....if you watch the video, during the lead-in Michael Jordan is the featured owner among the money-losers.

@kungfoodude

Edited by Stoney

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...