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ncfan

Want to feel sick and angry, a travel back through moves to get us where we are.

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Im going to look over some Painful moves that have us where we are then show the results if they were different.

 

Im starting off in 2012

Yes we missed on the Chance of AD losing the lottery.  But when #2 roles around we drafted a athletic raw prospect with a god awful shot/technique.  

Alternate move: Bradley Beal- Beal was a scoring Machine coming out of Florida.  And teaming him with Kemba wouldve made a helluva backcourt

 

Moving onto 2014

2 mistakes were made. First the Noah Vonley.  Vonley already on his 5th NBA team and spent time in the G-League just never panned out

Alternate pick:  Zach Lavine- Lavine, the eventual Dunk contest winner becomes a good future bargain trade chip

 

The possible bigger mistake.  As a part of the trade for Tyrus Thomas, they gave up what became the 16th pick.

Alternate Pick:  with that 16th pick the get the guu who ended up going 16th.  Jusuf Nurkic- Nurkic has had a solid career and been big in Portland

 

2015: when you think things couldn't get any worse.

The Boston Celtics at the time offered FOUR First round picks for the right of Frank Kaminsky.  Instead of receiving the 15th and 16th pick in 2015, a future unprotected 1st from the nets, and another future 1st.  We decided to hold onto Frank who just never got going

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/7/28/9058035/charlotte-hornets-frank-kaminsky-trade-celtics

 

Alternate: we make that trade and run before they change their minds.  With the 15th and 16th pick (Terry Rozier went with that 16th pick).  We package those 2 picks together and move up 2 spots to 13 for............Devin Booker- Booker becomes the eventual backup while Lavine gets traded with his stock high.

 

2016:  they dont get that unprotected 1st from the Nets as the Celtics hold it as its top 3.

 

2017:   while it appears they are set at SG.  I will go with the Celtics style of drafting bpa and have drafted heavily on guards and wings.  Hornets drafted Monk who hasnt panned out.

Alternate pick: Donvan Mitchell

 

2018:  by this point we arent drafting Bridges.  

Alternate:  BUT lets not forget about that unprotected Nets pick acquired from Kaminsky.  That pick eventually ended up being the #8  pick.  With That pick. They get a kid they Really liked coming out of the draft. Kevin Knox.

Outside of that one Zion Highlight ripping the ball from him.  Knox has been o e of the top players in Summer league including blocking Zion twice and knocking down a 3 right over the top of him.

 

 

So to recap.  A few things went different ways.  Ways that some people at the time thought could happen.

 

 

 

 

 

That Hornets roster most likely looking like.

Kemba

One of Bradley Beal or Devin Booker (other traded away for a good haul).  Mitchell backing up the SG

(Lavine traded away, was traded year 3 in Minnesota along with draft pick for all-star Jimmy Butler and a later pick)

Kevin Knox at SF

 

Nurkic and Zeller at Center

 

 

At that point im Certain Kemba would want to resign, and MJ would buyout Batum to fit Kemba's contract.

 

 

 

Edited by ncfan
  • Pie 2

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I've never really liked any of the moves these last few years, but a few of them (MKG, Monk) are somewhat defensible and made sense.  MKG was the consensus #2.  Sadly, people thought he would develop on offense. It was kind of a shock that Monk fell that draft....which turned out bad for us.  We liked Mitchell IIRC, but Monk falling made us bite. 

The two moves that will always haunt me, was first the turned down Boston trade.  Frank Kaminsky. Even if you want to turn down the trade...Justise Winslow is staring you in the face.  And you pick a guy who's potential is Ryan Andersen on a great day.  Use those picks as trade bait for help. Package them, whatever. And you take goofy peaked in college Kaminsky. 

The second, is not trading Kemba two years ago. Everyone outside of blind homers have seen this team's ceiling was at best a first round exit from the playoffs.  We've been stale, we've known a doomsday/luxury tax scenario was coming...and we sat there. We "couldn't" trade Kemba last year since the All-Star game was in town, which is dumb...but we should've never carried Kemba into this season anyway.  The play should've ALWAYS been to sell high on Kemba in 2017-18, tank 2018-19 for the pick, and blow it up. Instead, they decided fighting for the 8 seed was worth it.  

  • Pie 2

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Stop bringing up the 4 first rounders from Boston. If their offer was so great, why did every team drafting around us also turn down Boston's offer?

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/05/18/report-celtics-offered-monster-trade-package-for-justise-winslow-to-pistons-and-heat-not-just-hornets/

The picks offered have never been revealed and it seems a bunch of other GM's laughed at the offer, so can we all just finally stop with this nonsense.

Edited by Eazy-E

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8 hours ago, Eazy-E said:

Stop bringing up the 4 first rounders from Boston. If their offer was so great, why did every team drafting around us also turn down Boston's offer?

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/05/18/report-celtics-offered-monster-trade-package-for-justise-winslow-to-pistons-and-heat-not-just-hornets/

The picks offered have never been revealed and it seems a bunch of other GM's laughed at the offer, so can we all just finally stop with this nonsense.

Did you even read the article?  Literally counters your entire post, only one GM laughed it off (Riley), and the quote below (Ainge's admission) shows the offers may not have even been the same for Riley to laugh off...

"But Danny Ainge admitted after the draft he might have gotten carried away. It seemed possible he didn’t go that far with Detroit on the clock and came to his senses with Miami picking. Alas."

To me, sure sounds like Detroit didn't get the same offer, so Ainge started to panic and offer more to ensure they jumped Miami. Ainge comes to his senses, dilutes the offer to Miami, Riley hangs up because he loves Winslow. 

Not going to quote the entire article but again, really don't see how you read an opinion piece hating on all three teams NOT ACCEPTING the trade offer, and at minimum even the 2 best picks of the lot, would've netted us (in their future selections) Terry Rozier and Jaylen Brown. That's without any other potential picks of the rumored 6 that were offered, protections be damned. 

So....Frank Kaminsky > Terry Rozier and Jaylen Brown? No. 

Edited by CarolinaNCSU
  • Pie 1

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10 hours ago, CarolinaNCSU said:

Did you even read the article?  Literally counters your entire post, only one GM laughed it off (Riley), and the quote below (Ainge's admission) shows the offers may not have even been the same for Riley to laugh off...

"But Danny Ainge admitted after the draft he might have gotten carried away. It seemed possible he didn’t go that far with Detroit on the clock and came to his senses with Miami picking. Alas."

To me, sure sounds like Detroit didn't get the same offer, so Ainge started to panic and offer more to ensure they jumped Miami. Ainge comes to his senses, dilutes the offer to Miami, Riley hangs up because he loves Winslow. 

Not going to quote the entire article but again, really don't see how you read an opinion piece hating on all three teams NOT ACCEPTING the trade offer, and at minimum even the 2 best picks of the lot, would've netted us (in their future selections) Terry Rozier and Jaylen Brown. That's without any other potential picks of the rumored 6 that were offered, protections be damned. 

So....Frank Kaminsky > Terry Rozier and Jaylen Brown? No. 

Quote

But maybe we should save some admonishment for the Pistons (who drafted Stanley Johnson No. 8) and Heat (who drafted Winslow No. 10). Apparently, they also received Boston’s walloping offer.

Quote

It hasn’t been revealed precisely which picks the Celtics offered.

From the same article, so don't know why you are asking if I even read it. Not a single GM in the NBA made that trade with Boston so idk why the fug it is always brought up. Rozier and Brown picks are pure specualtion.

It's laughable you think Ainge didn't offer Detroit and Miami the same deal. All 3 teams turning down his offer should tell you everything you need to know.

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28 minutes ago, Eazy-E said:

From the same article, so don't know why you are asking if I even read it. Not a single GM in the NBA made that trade with Boston so idk why the fug it is always brought up. Rozier and Brown picks are pure specualtion.

It's laughable you think Ainge didn't offer Detroit and Miami the same deal. All 3 teams turning down his offer should tell you everything you need to know.

I'm not the one saying Ainge maybe didn't make the same offer...the article is questioning it while also saying apparently they also had the offer.  Everything surrounding the trade was pure speculation with nothing concrete ever confirmed. As for what picks were included, I'd also be inclined to believe Bill Simmons, who's probably more in tune with the Celtics than all but a few people on Earth. Not to mention, your entire argument basis of "GM's laughed at it" so we shouldn't bring it up...is based on the Bill Simmons quote.  So, we're not believing the other part of his quote about the picks and who they eventually turned out to be? 

Detroit wanted Stanley Johnson, they didn't want the trade. Miami wanted Winslow, Riley didn't want it.  Jordan, allegedly thought it out but balked due to the time constraints.  In the end, Charlotte turned down an offer for #9 that was at least #16, and a few others picks.  Potentially Brooklyn's 1st rounder, potentially protected 1st rounders, but the rumor was always 4 picks. So #16, plus even a few heavily protected 1st rounders at worst.  But no...Frank Kaminsky. It's continually brought up because it was a dumb deal to pass on, as the article you brought into this thread reinforces.  The article literally ends with...

Quote

 

The Pistons, Hornets and Heat are all locked into expensive rosters with merely moderate upsides. Stanley Johnson, Frank Kaminsky and even Justise Winslow – the Celtics’ dream selection – top out at fine. Detroit, Charlotte and Miami almost certainly would have been better off accepting this trade.

Boston was fortunate none did.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, CarolinaNCSU said:

I'm not the one saying Ainge maybe didn't make the same offer...the article is questioning it while also saying apparently they also had the offer.  Everything surrounding the trade was pure speculation with nothing concrete ever confirmed. As for what picks were included, I'd also be inclined to believe Bill Simmons, who's probably more in tune with the Celtics than all but a few people on Earth. Not to mention, your entire argument basis of "GM's laughed at it" so we shouldn't bring it up...is based on the Bill Simmons quote.  So, we're not believing the other part of his quote about the picks and who they eventually turned out to be? 

Detroit wanted Stanley Johnson, they didn't want the trade. Miami wanted Winslow, Riley didn't want it.  Jordan, allegedly thought it out but balked due to the time constraints.  In the end, Charlotte turned down an offer for #9 that was at least #16, and a few others picks.  Potentially Brooklyn's 1st rounder, potentially protected 1st rounders, but the rumor was always 4 picks. So #16, plus even a few heavily protected 1st rounders at worst.  But no...Frank Kaminsky. It's continually brought up because it was a dumb deal to pass on, as the article you brought into this thread reinforces.  The article literally ends with...

 

At the time it didn't seem dumb since no other team took the trade. looking back now it may seem dumb but without truly knowing what was offered it's all purely speculation. You can also argue that Frank is the best player out of Johnson and Winslow.

My entire point is everyone, even 4 years later, still shits on the Hornets for not making that trade but rarely brings up the fact that no one made a trade with Boston and the team in front of us and behind us supposedly turned down a similar trade. For that reason, I don't put much stock into the supposed picks offered by Boston. 

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To each their own and yes it's hindsight, but plenty on this board on draft night couldn't believe we didn't make the trade. Also doesn't excuse the other two franchise's mistake to an offer that Ainge even admitted was "probably too much". Not to mention, the article linked in the OP makes it even worse.  Bill Simmons says essentially the same pick wise, Zach Lowe says the below...

Quote

Boston offered their own No. 16 pick, the No. 15 pick from the Atlanta Hawks that was acquired in a "prearranged contingency deal," an unprotected future selection from the Brooklyn Nets and their choice of a future first-rounder from either the Memphis Grizzlies or Minnesota Timberwolves,according to Lowe. There's some dispute about whether additional second-round picks were also involved.

Yes, the Pistons - - in love with Stanley Johnson said no.  You're correct there. They were idiots in hindsight, yes.

Yes, the Heat - - in love with Justise Winslow said no.  They were idiots, again in hindsight. 

And the Hornets thought about but turned down, per the above...

  • #15, #16 in 2015, unprotected Brooklyn pick (2016 - #3), and a future Grizz or TWolves pick.  The Grizzles pick was the 2019 1st, but protected so it hasn't been cashed yet. No clue on the TWolves pick. 
  • That would eventually cash in as Kelly Oubre, Terry Rozier, Jaylen Brown, and a soon to be unprotected 1st rounder.

Why'd the turn it down?  From the OP's article, Curtis Polk explaining the decision to Zach Lowe...

Quote

"You have two minutes to decide: ‘Do I want to do this trade?'" says Polk, one of five men atop Charlotte's decision tree. "You don't have a day. You don't have hours. After all the intelligence we'd done, we were comfortable with Frank. But now you have two minutes to decide if you make this trade, who you're gonna take at No. 16, or maybe No. 20, and we haven't been focusing on that range. In fantasy basketball, it sounds great: ‘Oh my God, they could have gotten all those picks.' But in the real world, I'm not sure it makes us better."

One of our five decision makers is literally quoted as saying essentially "we weren't prepared to draft in that range", aka we didn't do our homework and our scouting department wouldn't have intel on guys only 6-7 spots below us. Probably also why we were scared to trade down from 9 the year before and took Vonleh with multiple 1st rounders offered to us. It's easy to see why Charlotte can't draft for dick when they don't even prepare for a majority of possibilities, so in a thread about hindsight?  Yeah I'd say the trade is fair game to complain about. 

  • Pie 2

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Looking back at our draft history and even our FA history the Hornets have almost universally made the wrong decision. 

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10 hours ago, SOJA said:

Looking back at our draft history and even our FA history the Hornets have almost universally made the wrong decision. 

It's the one true constant and it is why I feel so confident in predicting PJ Washington to be garbage and Terry Rozier to be a bad signing.

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I don’t care what anyone says; you don’t draft players who’s shot you have to “fix” or have ugly shots. Atleast where the hornets were picking at the time.

I can agree that Beal should’ve been the pick, and I was never high on MKG.

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