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Saca312

four possibilities that could happen this sunday concerning kyle allen

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11 minutes ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

How is this even on the same atmosphere of what I’m referring to, all 3 of those qbs didn’t have a franchise qb already on the roster. Of course it’s easier to hand the keys over when there’s no choice on who to give the keys to 

Kyle just has too small of a sample size to legitimately be able hand the keys to the franchise over to him

 

That's what you said.  What I'm saying is that the Panthers have handed the keys over to other QB's that had even less starting experience than Kyle Allen.  Nothing more, nothing less.

It's not what I want to happen, but we have done it before, and I won't put anything past this front office and coaching staff.

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16 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Kyle just has too small of a sample size to legitimately be able hand the keys to the franchise over to him

 

That's what you said.  What I'm saying is that the Panthers have handed the keys over to other QB's that had even less starting experience than Kyle Allen.  Nothing more, nothing less.

It's not what I want to happen, but we have done it before, and I won't put anything past this front office and coaching staff.

The situations are clearly different than what you are referring to, to take the keys from cam and hand over to Kyle after 5 games is not enough of a resume. 
 

saying we’ve done it in the past is irrelevant to this particular situation 

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8 minutes ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

The situations are clearly different than what you are referring to, to take the keys from cam and hand over to Kyle after 5 games is not enough of a resume. 
 

saying we’ve done it in the past is irrelevant to this particular situation 

Every single situation in every NFL clubhouse if different after every game.

What I'm saying is that what you wrote is clearly not the case.  We see teams hand over the keys to the franchise all the time with less starts than Kyle Allen has for us.

I'm not saying that we should, or will, but to say it's not enough of a resume is just not accurate in todays NFL.

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7 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Every single situation in every NFL clubhouse if different after every game.

What I'm saying is that what you wrote is clearly not the case.  We see teams hand over the keys to the franchise all the time with less starts than Kyle Allen has for us.

I'm not saying that we should, or will, but to say it's not enough of a resume is just not accurate in todays NFL.

You are failing to realize when those teams do that they either spend a lot of money or a high first pick on said qb, so of course they would hand the keys over to them they have a better resume than Allen does most of the time. 

this is a different situation completely, you already have a franchise qb on the roster when healthy, Allen was brought in or kept for a backup role, he was never thought of as the predecessor to cam to my knowledge before his play this year(by the media at least). If he exceeds the early label I’m all for it but you can’t realistically say that after 5 total games. It’s is very, very rare you see that happen while a team has a franchise qb in place, even more rare the success rate 

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no one who posted those vids saying cam played unbelievably in our first 2 games is in any way objective.   this has been a fit the narrative from the beginning.     your opinion may be correct saca.   maybe cam can play from the pocket at over 60% completion rate.  maybe he can survive running and not re-injure his throwing shoulder.  the first one i think is possible.  the 2nd one, no way that lasts.   i sure hope that isn't the plan.  his td/int ratio is pretty bad.   but maybe he can do it.   and maybe not playing the way he loves to play will still be fun for him.    and maybe his shoulder will hold up. lots and lots of maybe's.   more will be revealed.   we've got a huge game this week.  also, your confidence level in your opinion will in no way affect the outcome.

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15 hours ago, Saca312 said:

the bye week is now gone and football week is upon us. this week, the panthers will have their biggest test yet going against the only undefeated NFC team in the 49ers. 

additionally, kyle allen has already been deemed the starter, indicating the coaching staff is indeed using their one brain cell to ensure cam newton comes back 100% healthy and not rush him back.

so, with that being said, im sure a lot of u are wondering what this game entails as far as who is our starting quarterback going forward, so i present to you four scenarios:

1.) kyle allen plays like poo and loses

-what this means going forward: kyle allen remains the starter until cam newton is healthy.

2.) kyle allen plays well enough but panthers still lose

-what this means going forward: kyle allen remains the starter until cam newton is healthy.

3.) kyle allen plays well enough and the panthers win

-what this means going forward: kyle allen remains the starter until cam newton is healthy.

4.) kyle allen unlocks his inner peyton manning and has the game of his career, actively creating plays and clear primary factor for winning

-what this means going forward: kyle allen remains the starter until cam newton is healthy.

___________
So, what am I trying to get at? 

Simply put, it's one game against a very good team. As far as declaratives on this being Kyle Allen's clincher if he plays out of his mind, I really would be wary until he starts actively winning more.

In my opinion, Kyle Allen has produced two underwhelming games and two decent games thus far this season. He has not has a standout game yet where he's shown to be a similar or bigger playmaker than what a healthy cam newton provides, nor has he played like complete total poo.

And this is coming from the fact I think Kyle Allen is a decent starter in this league. (more on that in this post.)

So, what I'm saying is, for this season, a healthy Cam Newton is a far better player in terms of impact than Kyle Allen. Even if scenario four happens, I need to see a bigger sample size of those kind of games where he's an active reason for winning through playmaking ability.

Even if the worst case scenarios happen, he'll still be the starter, since it's still a small sample size.

In other words, nothing much has or will change.

 

Unless Kyle plays like Sam Darnold last night he keeps the job next week as well. 

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My biggest concern is when/if Cam is named starter again, will we see the slow pace to the line, lack of time to make adjustments, time management crap come right back. Cam is more gifted than KA, no doubt about it. But it's not just about him. 

The o-line playing better could be in part due to having 15 to 20 seconds to read the defense, Allen having time to pull a TE in to block, and the defense not having the snap count every down because the play clock is always at 1.

I think Cam has to fix that issue before he can start again or he may throw a wrench into the offensive machine. KA having to play in his place has revealed a lot of things that others have been blamed for, and I'm guilty of doing it. I just hope 9 years into his career, hes willing to do it.

And as a bonus, option 6. 

KA gets knocked out of the game on the 1st drive, Grier comes in and drops 400 yards and 6 TDs and we start the QB controversy all over again.

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2 hours ago, MasterAwesome said:

Do you concede that I could hand-pick two clips of Kyle Allen stepping up in the pocket or progressing through his reads

I mean do you concede it's unfeasible to post every play?

I even posted a point of reference where Kyle Allen showed ability to step into the pocket. I just said it's frequency was low in comparison to Cam.

Do I have to put out timestamps and chart every instance of stepping up into the pocket for a two game sample from Cam and Allen for you to trust in the idea Allen does it less than Cam? Practicality doesn't afford that luxury.

Again, there is only so much time and so much text that can go into a post. Film Analysis is around the constraint no one's going to post every single play in existence and I already showed both where Allen showed improvement as well. Observations are from the totality of what I watched, and I like how you conveniently ignore the positive analysis I've brought up concerning Allen's game.

So once again, I've learned very clearly this forum's a huge waste of time for anyone who wants to attempt to post quality content and I'll have the same people whining about something I post all over again. Y'all go ahead and do your own posts and analysis and whatever. Thanks for the reminder on why I don't post here anymore.

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3 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

It goes back to what I said before. You're comparing an idealized version of Cam Newton to a half hearted acknowledgement of Kyle Allen because those are the versions of these two players that exist in your head. The two guys who exist in reality aren't quite the same.

You seem to have a predetermined set picture of reality yourself.

It's whatever. This argument has not been worth the time or effort anyways. 

Used to have respect for you as a poster on here, but if you're going to die on this hill that I'm downgrading Kyle for the notion that he's not better than Cam Newton, then there are bigger issues that need to be addressed, as that has never been the case.

If I said Kyle was better than Newton, would that have made my analysis objective? Because frankly that's a terrible take given what I've seen, but I mean apparently it's a wild and outlandish one on here and I'm coming in with an agenda for saying such.

At least I know now I shouldn't waste my time on this board again.

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2 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

You seem to have a predetermined set picture of reality yourself.

It's whatever. This argument has not been worth the time or effort anyways. 

Used to have respect for you as a poster on here, but if you're going to die on this hill that I'm downgrading Kyle for the notion that he's not better than Cam Newton, then there are bigger issues that need to be addressed, as that has never been the case.

If I said Kyle was better than Newton, would that have made my analysis objective? Because frankly that's a terrible take given what I've seen, but I mean apparently it's a wild and outlandish one on here and I'm coming in with an agenda for saying such.

At least I know now I shouldn't waste my time on this board again.

The only person trying to create a "hill to die on" here is you.

You're basically doing a lot of stretching, inferring, etc. and then getting upset at being challenged. Sorry dude, but just because you put a video clip and add your opinion of what happened in it doesn't make it unassailable fact.

Suggesting that Greg Olsen doesn't like Kyle Allen because of a clip where he threw up his hands, for example. If you've never seen Olsen get upset that he was wide open and Newton missed him, you haven't been watching too closely. Likewise, it ignores that Olsen has disputed people's suggestions that Allen wasn't helping win games.

Same thing with Turner. You took one comment and try to make it something it wasn't, but ignored actual words where Turner said Allen does a lot of  things very well, adding that if they found things he didn't do well, they limit them. Put that together with the story later on that not only did they not limit the offense with Allen playing, they actually expanded some parts of it.

Your "hill to die on" here is that Newton can't possibly lose his job to Allen because he's a better player. Maybe so, but the problem id it's a point you make in a complete vacuum, ignoring every factor that works against you. And trust me, there are plenty.

If that offends you, sorry but it's the truth.

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I should add, if you want a little perspective on my "predetermined Kyle Allen fandom", go back about six weeks.

What you'll find is me being one of the people pissed off that we didn't sign an experienced backup like Josh McCown instead of rolling the dice on an undrafted guy with one start that wasn't even valid because it was a glorified preseason game. Some of the better highlights include me going back and forth with Ellis because he felt a lot more confident in Allen than I did.

So yeah, predetermined my ass. I'm where I am now because I lost a debate.

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This is one of the more pointless threads I’ve read in a while and this place has a lot of pointless threads 

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18 hours ago, Saca312 said:

4.) kyle allen unlocks his inner peyton manning and has the game of his career, actively creating plays and clear primary factor for winning

If this happens, get ready for a really wild ride. The trade deadline around the Corner(Oct 29), his performance, as you describe it, would garner a lot of interest from QB need teams. If some team throws a 2nd or higher for him.. I don't know what Hurney will do. I am not saying I am an advocate for trading Allen. I am speculating what could happen....so please don't start trying to skew my words. You know who you are...(eyeroll). 

 

The possibilities would open up more if scenario #4 happens. The League will notice. So I don't see it as easy as you suggest, at least not in that particular scenario. 

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3 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

You're basically doing a lot of stretching, inferring, etc. and then getting upset at being challenged. Sorry dude, but just because you put a video clip and add your opinion of what happened in it doesn't make it unassailable fact.

I mean I feel I've made perfectly reasonable points to back up my claims.

Meanwhile, you've accused me of simply peddling to twitter analysts and discrediting my analysis because I find a few things negative about Allen's play.

And I never said Olsen hates Allen. I showed off two examples of where Kyle Allen's decision making could've been better and used Olsen's reaction as part of the justification. I could easily go ahead and open up other plays where I can break down the play concept and show why he should have gone for another read in that scenario, but I chose to support my claims with what the players did on field. I said that it's likely Olsen would prefer Newton gun to head, but to suggest that means he hates Allen is also not true, nor what I said at all.

My primary gripe is you demeaning my work as if it were agenda based, when the reality is it really wasn't. I made a fair assessment of Allen's play and credited him with showing improvement and good traits. I'm skeptical of him being a Cam replacement as of this moment and that's really what I've only said. I would like to see more evidence of him continuing to improve in the areas he needs to and show off a few elite games, which he does have potential to do based on talent alone. How and when he reaches it is up to question.

I'm not ignoring the possibility Kyle will ball out and continue to do so, as he's shown potential. Nor am I ignoring the possibility if he continues with high level play and improvement, he'll be a justified replacement of Cam.

You're making it out as if I'm clearly against Kyle and overrated Cam Newton instead. I really haven't been. Then when you attack my ability to evaluate film, that's where I've drawn the line, because you're cherry picking my analysis as if I've really tried demeaning Kyle Allen when I haven't.

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