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Mr. Scot

Rivera vs Analytics

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...seems to have been a fight that's been happening behind the scenes.

Apparently, Rivera lost.

In his final press conference today, Rivera made some comments on that front, some of which sounded rather mocking. He pointed out that he was doing 4th and 1 before the numbers people said he should and threw in the phrase "figures lie and liars figure".

Guess you could say Ron lost out to a spreadsheet.

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John Harbaugh has completely given into his analytics team on every decision and modeled the Ravens as the most analytical team in the NFL

The Ravens are the best team in the league and will probably win the Superbowl

Imagine if we had an analytics heavy team when Cam was in his prime and gave him the type of support Lamar Jackson has

Rivera was a dumb jock linebacker who could not understand math

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Imagine how frustrated Tepper must have been, with his background in math, watching Rivera punt on 4th and 1 on the 32 yard line

And then having to have a conversation with this dumb former linebacker (who probably suffered too many hits to the head in Chicago) the following day, asking for his reasoning, to be told, "I went with my gut, you have to trust your defense and win the field possession battle"

Does anyone remember when Cam Newton got in Rivera's face and barked at him to allow the offense to stay on the field on 4th and 1, and Rivera backed down.  Cam just straight bullied him, and I bet Rivera always resented him for humiliating him in front of the team.

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The truth is that it’s somewhere in between...you want to complement intuition with analytics, not rely entirely on one or the other.

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6 minutes ago, bobowilson said:

John Harbaugh has completely given into his analytics team on every decision and modeled the Ravens as the most analytical team in the NFL

The Ravens are the best team in the league and will probably win the Superbowl

Imagine if we had an analytics heavy team when Cam was in his prime and gave him the type of support Lamar Jackson has

Rivera was a dumb jock linebacker who could not understand math

and Bill Belichick has won 6 Super Bowls in less than 20 years and doesnt use them at all. The Browns have invested heavily into it as well too and they still suck. Having analytics play into our situational decisions isnt going to magically make our shitty OLine and shitty run defense better. not sure why some posters act like it's gonna magically make us a Super Bowl team. 

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1 minute ago, KillaCamNewton said:

and Bill Belichick has won 6 Super Bowls in less than 20 years and doesnt use them at all. The Browns have invested heavily into it as well too and they still suck. Having analytics play into our situational decisions isnt going to magically make our shitty OLine and shitty run defense better. not sure why some posters act like it's gonna magically make us a Super Bowl team. 

 

The idea that Bill B doesn't use analytics is hilarious, just because he likes to throw people off

What do you think Ernie Adams does?  The Patriots rely on analytics more than all but a handful of teams in the NFL 

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I’m thinking analytics are going to catch up to Newton as well. Just one opinion.

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3 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

The truth is that it’s somewhere in between...you want to complement intuition with analytics, not rely entirely on one or the other.

Oakland A’s went to the playoffs using them years ago with a bunch of JAGs.  Of course in the playoffs it’s a smaller sample size and it didn’t work out but it got em there. 

I think there is a happy medium to be used concerning analytics 

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Ravens are this good because Lamar Jackson is a stud.  Don't overthink it.  We'd have a 10-2 record as well if he were on our roster. 

They can be as analytical as they want and if Josh McCown was under center they'd be .500 at best.  Analytics is marginal stuff, talent is still king.

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3 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

The truth is that it’s somewhere in between...you want to complement intuition with analytics, not rely entirely on one or the other.

I'd agree, but it doesn't really sound like either Tepper or Rivera was willing to back down.

And realistically, if your boss is continually saying "I want you to do this" and you repeatedly respond by saying "no, I'm going to do that" then unless you can prove him wrong by being successful doing things your way, your ass is getting fired.

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8 minutes ago, Cuttinedge said:

Oakland A’s went to the playoffs using them years ago with a bunch of JAGs.  Of course in the playoffs it’s a smaller sample size and it didn’t work out but it got em there. 

I think there is a happy medium to be used concerning analytics 

baseball isnt football. analytics will definitely help but the physical aspect of football is obviously way more important than in baseball. football is always lining up across another player and winning your matchup. all it takes is one guy getting his ass kicked continuously in his matchup and it can ruin the whole game for you. see Von Miller vs Mike Remmers in the Super Bowl

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Maybe thats why Rivera and Gettleman made such a great team, neither of them were/are in love with analytics.  Both shared the same vision, both have been around the block long enough to know what a successful player/team/franchise looked like, no need to rely on analytics to tell them what their gut already knew.

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45 minutes ago, KillaCamNewton said:

and Bill Belichick has won 6 Super Bowls in less than 20 years and doesnt use them at all. The Browns have invested heavily into it as well too and they still suck. Having analytics play into our situational decisions isnt going to magically make our shitty OLine and shitty run defense better. not sure why some posters act like it's gonna magically make us a Super Bowl team. 

And they’ve been to 9.

thats almost a 50% Super Bowl appearance rate.

 

ron said a version of what I’ve always learned.

Numbers don’t lie but people lie about numbers all the time.

analytics sometimes are incorrectly meshed with odds.  Often odds are stand alone and have no correlation to another.

We had the absolute best 4th down and redzone offense in History,.. of course we had great “odds” of conversion.

you can’t mesh that together when making odds on Rudy Playing quarterback and a slot receiver playing running back. 

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1 hour ago, bobowilson said:

John Harbaugh has completely given into his analytics team on every decision and modeled the Ravens as the most analytical team in the NFL

The Ravens are the best team in the league and will probably win the Superbowl

Imagine if we had an analytics heavy team when Cam was in his prime and gave him the type of support Lamar Jackson has

Rivera was a dumb jock linebacker who could not understand math

image.png.be0c76c21d78410fd6f1ea6261477ff4.png

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There are plenty of ways to view circumstances in all facets of life, including sports. Analytics are a useful tool, but that doesn't necessarily negate the value of other lenses - experience, instinct, situational awareness based on available personnel, and so on.

I just want a bright, passionate, energetic coach that is hungry to win and prove himself.

If I were sitting down to do the interviews, I'd know who it was when they talked to me.

Edited by run-run-pass-punt

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