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Doc Holiday

About this Cam Newton leaving talk...

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2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

And if he's not willing to play on what's essentially a one year "prove it" deal, then what?

What can he say? Until he proves it he doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

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4 minutes ago, Doc Holiday said:

What can he say? Until he proves it he doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

All it takes is for one other team to be willing to offer him more than what we're paying him or more than one year.

Keeping in mind we had a report that at least 10 teams were willing to trade for him despite his injury status earlier this year, are you absolutely positive there's not a single one out of 31 other teams that would be willing to do that?

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1 hour ago, Rastlet said:

You guys are nuts if you want Hurney to trade up for a QB. The idiot had Grier way over valued so why does anyone have any confidence Hurney knows what he is doing when it comes to evaluating QB's.

Well you know, he did also draft Cam and that was no sure thing.

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2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Are you willing to give him an extension?

(that's what it may well take)

If so, how much?

Yep. Too many people live in the past when it comes to cam. Signing him to an extention means you think he will be a healthy and reliable qb for the nect 4 years that can bring the same skillset to the team that he brought 5 years ago. 

Can he stay healthy?

Can he still run the ball effectuvely mow that he has lost 30 pounds of muscle?

Can he improve his accuracy to make up for not being able to run?

What cam did in the past is irrelevant... what can cam do in the future is what you ask yourself before crippling your franchise on a qb that had been ridden into the ground. 

 

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2 hours ago, jfra78 said:

Theres no way in hell Cam sits out next year. He has to play at least 6 games to accrue a season, so if he sits out he will still be under contract. You let him play on his current contract and work on an extension during the season if he is truly healthy

The Panthers are not going to let 21 million in cap space be taken up... I’m sure last years Steelers sure could of used the Bell tag money... If a hold out is commenced, Cam is gone... the Panthers are not going to hold on to a guy who refuses to go to camp and shows up week 1 rusty...

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We all know 2015 healthy cam is>>>>>>>> Kyle Allen. I’m not convinced 31 year old healthy cam is going to be as powerful a runner... if Kyle Allen plays for 500k and cam is risky... why would you not spend a mid- top 10 pick on the defensive line and the $20 million you now freed up on O-line? My point is Cam Newton will not be 21 million better then KA next year... you might even be able to fetch a Guard for him... if KA sucks BADLY, Trevor Lawerence is available...

Cam at 50% will have us at 6-10... Kyle Allen is going to boom or bust next year... him starting is our best chance at a SB or #1 overall...

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There are a couple of things I must me missing according to the resident experts.

Why would Tepper not play hardball in this? He has paid him around 40 million for about 5 decent games. 6? Not a bunch. And has him under contract.

Somebody please explain to me where his leverage is, to not play out his deal, to force us into trading him for less that a healthy Cam Newton would command? I'd really not want to let him go out of friendship or something if I were Tepper, and I would not want to be made a jerk of in a deal where I sell him cheap and he blows up with another team.

If he does hold out and come in for 6 games it is past the trade deadline. We probably won't be behooved to play him if he has made it an adversarial relationship by refusing to report, and he will be in the same boat as far as his value because he will not have proven anything by not playing.

And we have the tag to hold over him as well. (edit: meaning we can still trade him cheap in 2021 if we end up in worst case).

 

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2 hours ago, mav1234 said:

1) Allen has nothing to do with whether we keep Cam or not IMO.

which brings me to...

2)  The only reason we wouldn't retain Cam is if he isn't healthy at all, or if he may be healthy but refuses to play out his contract... When was the last time Cam finished a season as a top 5  - or really top 10 - QB?  2015.... that is a long time ago... 2016 was not a great year, and we all know how it went after that.  I don't know how you can give Cam an extension when he hasn't played healthy through a season in years - perhaps Cam would take an extremely team-friendly extension but I kind of doubt it. 

Even still.. he masked a lot of serious problems with this team. Things that wont show up on the stat sheet. How truly bad the offensive line is and our redzone inability to finish games off on 4th and 1.. Cam has just has more ability to put us in a better position to win games and elevate the rest of this average roster.

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3 minutes ago, Pantherzack179812 said:

We all know 2015 healthy cam is>>>>>>>> Kyle Allen. I’m not convinced 31 year old healthy cam is going to be as powerful a runner... if Kyle Allen plays for 500k and cam is risky... why would you not spend a mid- top 10 pick on the defensive line and the $20 million you now freed up on O-line? My point is Cam Newton will not be 21 million better then KA next year... you might even be able to fetch a Guard for him... if KA sucks BADLY, Trevor Lawerence is available...

Cam at 50% will have us at 6-10... Kyle Allen is going to boom or bust next year... him starting is our best chance at a SB or #1 overall...

psssst..start of 2018 cam was better than Allen and most of the league as well.. people leave that out.

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2 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

psssst..start of 2018 cam was better than Allen and most of the league as well.. people leave that out.

But the start of 2018 is where you are living. Health is a huge variable you seem to be ignoring, or assuming.

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You people don't know Cam Newton. He will not sit out. Flame me if I'm wrong but that is not in his character from anything I've seen in 9yrs. He may dress oddly but he has been a high character guy despite how the media portrays him. You have to be supremely confident to be what Cam is. Hero ball best describes him.

He will play at a VERY high level again. I wouldn't bet against him.

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3 minutes ago, rippadonn said:

You people don't know Cam Newton. He will not sit out. Flame me if I'm wrong but that is not in his character from anything I've seen in 9yrs. He may dress oddly but he has been a high character guy despite how the media portrays him. You have to be supremely confident to be what Cam is. Hero ball best describes him.

He will play at a VERY high level again. I wouldn't bet against him.

I don't disagree with you about him wanting to play and prove it but if he has gotten pissed at the organization that would be a different thing.

 

I think the smart thing for him to do, from his viewpoint, is play and prove it.

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I'm accustomed to the Owner of my team doing everything possible to make me hate my team.  If Cam goes out like this, after Smitty and several other mistakes made, I'm not sure my fandom will survive it.

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3 hours ago, Doc Holiday said:

See how he does next year, if healthy and comes back 100% give him a big contract with incentives to off set the injury risk. His play history when healthy has already proven to be worthy. It’s just a question if he can stay healthy.

This is where it gets tricky though.  It's basically a prove it year for him. If he was healthy, would be getting his 3rd contract worked out about now.  If he looks good, then we'll need to sign a deal during the season as you mention.  If he doesn't come back right, a tag & trade will be super hard so are we all just willing to risk next year on him?  It's a big risk for the future given the value that could be had right now for him.  It drops if next year doesn't work out.  It's a decision I see both sides to.   

Best Case: You get Cam freaking Newton back with a chance to compete; however in a brand new system and on a team rebuilding.  Could be a minor build and we could be good quickly but Tepper sounds like he wants a clean slate in many respects.  We sign him to a 4 year type deal and have time to find the next guy while Cam continues through his prime, we contend for SBs.   

Risk: Cam doesn't come back right/gets injured, value is lost, we let him walk at the end of his contract, no compensation.  A team rebuilding gets nothing for him.     

It's a situation I can't remember a QB & team having in quite some time. 

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The man rolled over in his lifted truck close to falling off the damn bridge and PLAYED that season with a friggin broken back bone and he won't play next year?!? I don't have to ask the question "how will Cam perform AFTER he gets paid?". You know why? I know he's not playing for $$$ he plays for clout. To be the best. You spend all this time grooming a franchise QB to give him away to another team because it's time for THEM to "win".

Listen to yourselves.

 

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1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

If another team is willing to pay him anything in excess of two years, 20 million, then he absolutely has leverage.

Remember back in mid-season, word was there were at least ten teams that wanted him. All it takes is one.

He can’t negotiate with other teams and even if teams want to trade for him we don’t have to trade him right now at all. If we get an offer we can’t refuse then yeah obviously go ahead but otherwise the play should be to just hang onto him this year and see what he has left if anything. Cam has no real choice but to play for us here if we want to keep him. It’s either play now or sit out the year and not get paid or get to show teams what he has left.

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