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MHS831

Why the Panthers might Draft Herbert

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10 minutes ago, Catamount said:

I’m not saying that we should draft Herbert but I wonder how many people on KC boards were saying Mahomes was hot garbage, Big 12 air raid style doesn’t work in the NFL, blah blah blah. 

It's a bitch trying to project QBs to the NFL. I know some people think I'm anti-Herbert. I'm really not. I'm anti what Herbert has shown at Oregon. But that very well may be a product of him playing in that offense. I don't argue against him having all the physical tools. He does. But what he's shown at Oregon just doesn't translate very well to the NFL. It's up to teams to determine through the interview process and white board work to determine if he's capable of more. What I'm not going to do is call in love with the tools and then convince myself that I haven't seen what I've watched over numerous games over the past two seasons. Routinely going through progressions? No. Sorry, I haven't seen that. It happens a few times a game and more often than not it results in deer in the headlights, but when you don't ask a QB to routinely read through a progression and don't tailor an offense to have multiple options on any given pass play, it's not really fair to expect a QB to look like Peyton Manning out there when put in that situation.

I wouldn't hate drafting Herbert if we determine he's capable of more. I think he'd be best served in a Aaron Rodgers type situation where he sits and learns for awhile. The question is, do you draft a guy at #7 to do that?

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I will drive to Charlotte and find Hurney if this happens.  Upon finding, him I will give him a complementary lobotomy.  Seriously FREE of charge!  I mean he obviously has brain damage, what harm could it do?

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7 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I honestly haven't paid much attention to the "analysts" opinions on him, but I've watched plenty of his games over the past two seasons and I'd agree with this. He throws a TON of screens and single reads off of RPO. The majority of his dedicated passing plays are half field reads. When he doesn't see exactly what he wants or expects he hesitates big time. Maybe people think that's "going through his reads"? What I see is a deer in the headlights.

I'm with you on this.  I watched most of his games this year since I figured there was a good chance we would be going QB.  And I did not see an NFL QB at all.  He has all the size, arm strength, and athleticism you want, but his play doesn't match his traits.  He doesn't handle pressure well, and when forced to make plays he becomes erratic.  I just don't see the mental makeup to be an NFL starter.  

 

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To follow up, in fairness to him, the Oregon offense didn't do him any favors, but even so, he never really carried that team or lifted them when they desperately needed him to...and there were a handful of times he had the opportunity to, but he usually faltered.

Some have mocked the idea of him being an introvert, but it is a real issue.  Look at virtually every team that wins championships (college or NFL) and they have a QB that is a vocal leader and very active in helping lift the teams spirits when things aren't going well, but that is not something Herbert has ever shown the ability to do.  In fact, he shrinks from it.  So, having someone not comfortable with being in the forefront is not a positive.

And for those putting weight on the senior bowl, be careful of making more of it than it was.  Yes, he practiced and played well, and he made a concerted effort to interact with his teammates (which he even acknowledged was something he has to work on).  However, the interactions were something he had to force, it just doesn't come naturally for him.  And there was no blitzing or exotic defenses designed to confuse QB's.  It was strait football, which is never played in the NFL.  Basically, it is an event designed to highlight traits and skillsets, which nobody questions about Herbert.  Just like he'll probably look good at the combine. 

For the record, from everything I have seen and heard, Herbert is well liked by pretty much everyone, and he is a team guy.  But I just don't see him ever being what some want him to be.

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3 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I would love fromm in the 2nd.  Let brady fix him. He was really good in 2018

Not a big Fromm fan but prove me wrong 

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25 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It's a bitch trying to project QBs to the NFL. I know some people think I'm anti-Herbert. I'm really not. I'm anti what Herbert has shown at Oregon. 

Thank you for saying that because it's exactly how I feel.  I started watching him because I REALLY wanted to like him...heck, I still do.  I think he is a great kid, but I just didn't like what I saw from him at Oregon.  I get the offense was a big issue, but looking past that to his actual decision making and play, I just didn't see anything to give me any belief that he will be a top end NFL QB, despite his ideal physical traits.

 

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Is there anyone on the Panthers staff [Tepper, Hurley, Rhule or other] smart enough to use the trend for QBs to be overvalued? Could Cam be worth more than a 2nd if healthy, say a 2nd & 3rd? Herbert worth a 1st-2nd & 2021 2nd or a 2020 & 2021 1st?

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14 hours ago, MHS831 said:

I see both sides, but if the offense was designed to be quick hitting and he was coached to make the read and deliver the ball, then that does not mean that he cannot.  At the SR bowl, he was not in that dink and dunk offense and was the MVP.

Yeah, I think he got a nice bump from the Senior Bowl. I like him, actually. Best potential of the current QB class, IMO.

  • Pie 1

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1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, I think he got a nice bump from the Senior Bowl. I like him, actually. Best potential of the current QB class, IMO.

People have reservations about this and that, but if he has a year, he can be coached up.  He has the skill. Burrow?  the only difference is the team around each player.  LSU was so good, they could always have a balanced attack.  Both had pretty good OLs. 

So you have to look at the skill set--and Burrow has nothing on Herbert---but they are both good.  I love Herbert's height, athleticism, arm strength, etc. He also has more experience starting than Burrow. 

 

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i have no idea how herbert will turn out.  big positive is he's really smart.   side note is i've never seen a tighter spiral.

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Unless you have the No. 1 pick, this is not the year to draft a QB. Not saying the rest will bust, but a vast majority will and it’s not worth the risk. Next year’s class is far better. 

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11 hours ago, DamnItJake! said:

No way we trade Cam!! If we do!! It’s obvious we will be in full tank mode for Lawrence or the Ohio State kid for QBs unless others shine that I don’t know about!! Hurts in the 3rd or 4th might be a thought for this year!! Think we sit with what we have at QB!

I think trading Cam is a very real possibility.  How can you tank for players that 31 other teams could draft?  We know what we have now at #7, and that is an opportunity to grab a QB.

Here is the deal I would make:  Trade Cam to the Chargers for a second rounder OR a third rounder and first round pick swap.  That prevents the Chargers from getting Cam and dealing their first to a team looking for a QB.  Whether you or I want Cam to stay or get traded, if you but on your business hat and think beyond 2020, you get in the business side more.

  • Pie 1

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7 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

Unless you have the No. 1 pick, this is not the year to draft a QB. Not saying the rest will bust, but a vast majority will and it’s not worth the risk. Next year’s class is far better. 

I normally agree with you, but we don't know for sure where we will be picking next year.  This is not an endorsement for Herbert as much as it is a discussion of a Panther option. If you take away the concerns and biases from Herbert, you are left with a pretty impressive skill set on a perfect QB frame.  The toy may be crap, but the packaging is awesome.

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1) keep the pick and take Brown

2) If Brown isn’t there, trade down a few spots to someone enamored with a QB

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