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Happy Panther

Nashville tells Billionaire ro pay for his own damn stadium.

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Under the agreed upon terms, Nashville SC will fund 100 percent of stadium construction with private money through investments, stadium lease payments and revenues generated by events at the stadium. Cooper and the club have agreed to a statement of principles including open space between the soccer stadium and the historic speedway at the fairgrounds.

https://www.prosoccerusa.com/mls/expansion/nashville/nashville-sc-agreement-mayor-john-cooper-soccer-stadium-mls-2020-battle/

Kyle Bailey made this out to be that the city will pay $0. But later in the article:

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In short, Nashville SC is on the hook for a bigger portion of the cost of the stadium than it previously was. The city will still issue $225 million in bonds for the stadium and pay $25 million for stadium-related infrastructure, according to the Tennessean.

$225 is still a big check and bonds aren't free money. I don't really think this sets a precedent that billionaires don't get city money. And this is "just" a soccer stadium.

Counterpoint - allianz field was privately funded but with tax breaks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allianz_Field

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Sounds like they reshuffled the funding to make it sound better for the locality, but there's a lot of people's tax money that will go to provide welfare for a professional sports team and a massively wealthy team owner.

Meantime, local schools are struggling for funding, potholes don't get filled and police are underfunded and overworked. But hey, soccer, amiright? 

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18 hours ago, Happy Panther said:

https://www.prosoccerusa.com/mls/expansion/nashville/nashville-sc-agreement-mayor-john-cooper-soccer-stadium-mls-2020-battle/

Kyle Bailey made this out to be that the city will pay $0. But later in the article:

$225 is still a big check and bonds aren't free money. I don't really think this sets a precedent that billionaires don't get city money. And this is "just" a soccer stadium.

Counterpoint - allianz field was privately funded but with tax breaks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allianz_Field

No city will pay for an MLS stadium. Their fans are not loyal enough yet (in my opinion, statistics may show otherwise). The NFL draws 10,000-20,000 away fans to cities per game. The people who say stadiums don't bring money to the city. If a stadium lasts 30 years and each individual pays $25 in sales tax per game (Ticket sales tax alone is usually 10-30dollars) $25x72,000=1,800,000x 10.2 home games (.2 for every playoff game once in a blue moon)= 18,000,000x30=540,000,000 million dollars. Property tax from the stadium in BOA was 87 million this year, add that for 30 years= 2,610,000,000 billion dollars from the team (It will go up for a new facility). Hotel tax I'm not even going to try to calculate.

So just off sales tax and property tax, the city over thirty years incurs 1.2 billion in fees for a 2.4 billion dollar stadium. 

Receives: 540,000,000 million dollars in tax revenue (not even accounting for the inflation and higher prices that will be received later)

2,610,000,000 Billion dollars (And that is on the LOW end, I'm giving the low estimate for arguments sake.

Last I checked 3,150,000,000>1,200,000,000. 

Stanford may be smart, but they can't do math. Now, let's factor in economic benefit from Montley Crue, The Rolling Stones, Billy Joel,  Garth Brooks.

Average ticket price= $200x0.07= 14x72,000x4= 4,032,000x30=120,960,000.... I love how everyone basis the argument of stadiums aren't worth it based off one Stanford study from one guy, then can't think for themselves.

All these estimates are low numbers, will the city see their 1.2 billion back in 10 years? Probably not, but I'm pretty sure that your average NFL city doesn't want to lose their team. Short sited it is a TERRIBLE investment. But if the stadium stays 30 years, there is NO way they at least don't get 100% of what they put out back.

MLS they shouldn't pay CRAP. I would argue if Michael Jordan asked for a new stadium, the NBA would leave Charlotte though as it should. But explain to me how the city should make David Tepper and the NFL pay 2.4-3 billion for a new stadium that they will gain 3,150,000,000+120,960,000=3,270,960,000‬  for?  

Those who say make the billionaire pay show exactly why they probably have less then $100,000 in the bank with a mortgage, the billionaire got there by wheeling and dealing. The city SHOULD pay up because SOMEONE else would. Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

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9 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

Sounds like they reshuffled the funding to make it sound better for the locality, but there's a lot of people's tax money that will go to provide welfare for a professional sports team and a massively wealthy team owner.

Meantime, local schools are struggling for funding, potholes don't get filled and police are underfunded and overworked. But hey, soccer, amiright? 

This goes on in every state and it's not limited to pro sports teams.  Taxpayers money is thrown in on all kinds of privately owned endeavors.   If you only knew how your tax money is spent on building infrastructure for private companies you would be shocked.  That's all I'm going to say about that.

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7 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

This goes on in every state and it's not limited to pro sports teams.  Taxpayers money is thrown in on all kinds of privately owned endeavors.   If you only knew how your tax money is spent on building infrastructure for private companies you would be shocked.  That's all I'm going to say about that.

I've spent a lot of time sitting in on town, city, county and even state budget sessions. The chicanery that goes on varies, but it is never gone from the process. Some of that is grist for the mill that feeds us all, some is grift that fattens up the few. Realistically, you want politicians with a bit of shame to them, a press that watches them closely, and enough grease to keep the wheels rolling.

It has been the same since the biggest Cro-Magnon looked around at his family group and said, "I'm the boss, got a problem with that?" Or grunted something to that effect.

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Kyle Bailey isnt the brightest bulb, sharpest crayon, ....

Edited by Moo Daeng
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12 minutes ago, Moo Daeng said:

Kyle Bailey isnt the brightest bulb, sharpest crayon, ....

Not nearly as bad as packman used to be, but still a loudmouth

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This whole deal in Nashville sounds like a good compromise for all

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1 hour ago, Jon Snow said:

This goes on in every state and it's not limited to pro sports teams.  Taxpayers money is thrown in on all kinds of privately owned endeavors.   If you only knew how your tax money is spent on building infrastructure for private companies you would be shocked.  That's all I'm going to say about that.

I once used road money from the department of transportation to build a warehouse. LOL

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39 minutes ago, Moo Daeng said:

Kyle Bailey isnt the brightest bulb, sharpest crayon, ....

All those publicly funded stadiums ensure Kyle Bailey has a job.

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52 minutes ago, Wes21 said:

I once used road money from the department of transportation to build a warehouse. LOL

Exhibit A.

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2 hours ago, Pantherzack179812 said:

No city will pay for an MLS stadium. Their fans are not loyal enough yet (in my opinion, statistics may show otherwise). The NFL draws 10,000-20,000 away fans to cities per game. The people who say stadiums don't bring money to the city. If a stadium lasts 30 years and each individual pays $25 in sales tax per game (Ticket sales tax alone is usually 10-30dollars) $25x72,000=1,800,000x 10.2 home games (.2 for every playoff game once in a blue moon)= 18,000,000x30=540,000,000 million dollars. Property tax from the stadium in BOA was 87 million this year, add that for 30 years= 2,610,000,000 billion dollars from the team (It will go up for a new facility). Hotel tax I'm not even going to try to calculate.

So just off sales tax and property tax, the city over thirty years incurs 1.2 billion in fees for a 2.4 billion dollar stadium. 

Receives: 540,000,000 million dollars in tax revenue (not even accounting for the inflation and higher prices that will be received later)

2,610,000,000 Billion dollars (And that is on the LOW end, I'm giving the low estimate for arguments sake.

Last I checked 3,150,000,000>1,200,000,000. 

Stanford may be smart, but they can't do math. Now, let's factor in economic benefit from Montley Crue, The Rolling Stones, Billy Joel,  Garth Brooks.

Average ticket price= $200x0.07= 14x72,000x4= 4,032,000x30=120,960,000.... I love how everyone basis the argument of stadiums aren't worth it based off one Stanford study from one guy, then can't think for themselves.

All these estimates are low numbers, will the city see their 1.2 billion back in 10 years? Probably not, but I'm pretty sure that your average NFL city doesn't want to lose their team. Short sited it is a TERRIBLE investment. But if the stadium stays 30 years, there is NO way they at least don't get 100% of what they put out back.

MLS they shouldn't pay CRAP. I would argue if Michael Jordan asked for a new stadium, the NBA would leave Charlotte though as it should. But explain to me how the city should make David Tepper and the NFL pay 2.4-3 billion for a new stadium that they will gain 3,150,000,000+120,960,000=3,270,960,000‬  for?  

Those who say make the billionaire pay show exactly why they probably have less then $100,000 in the bank with a mortgage, the billionaire got there by wheeling and dealing. The city SHOULD pay up because SOMEONE else would. Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

Unfortunately most economists who opine on this topic tend to disagree. It's too complex for me but it's usually the NFL or the team championing all the benefits. 

https://www.snoqap.com/posts/2019/1/21/are-publicly-funded-stadiums-worth-it

https://econreview.berkeley.edu/the-economics-of-sports-stadiums-does-public-financing-of-sports-stadiums-create-local-economic-growth-or-just-help-billionaires-improve-their-profit-margin/

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/sports-jobs-taxes-are-new-stadiums-worth-the-cost/

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/11/sports-stadiums-can-be-bad-cities/576334/

https://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/page1-econ/2017-05-01/the-economics-of-subsidizing-sports-stadiums/

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5 hours ago, Happy Panther said:

I literally just explained how the state gets their money back plus more. They must all be looking short term, NFL stadium lifespan is 25-30 years. State Sales tax is 7.25%. At an average of $25 a person spent on sales tax, $25x 72,000= 1,800,000= 18,000,000= 540,000,000 million in 30 years of state tax revenue.

The state collected 87 million for BOA in 2019 and a new stadium would collect 100 million at worst average over 30 years= That is 3,000,000,000. 

Leaving a total collected off the Panthers for 3,540,000,000.

Not including 2-3 years in construction work for local construction companies, continued visitation from 10,000-15,000 visiting fans supporting our economy, Hotels not going out of business. 

I don't think these people are considering those teams are GONE if the team doesn't get the stadium, ask ST Louis what happens when you try to submit at the last second. Lastly, your taxpayers will be pissed for losing their NFL team...

I literally just refuted every single one of these articles with the articles. With sales tax on tickets and property tax from the state, 1.2 billion dollars turned to 3,540,000,000 over 30 years. Ask an investor who would not take that if they had it.

Quit sending me articles and refute how my numbers could be wrong? How about the millions in revenue the Panthers supply to our power companies, plumbers, people who keep up the stadium. Economists don't consider all factors.

What's next, property tax does not exist? The State would make money just off property tax lol. 

 

So let's treat this like a loan.

1.2 billion  with a return of 1,180,000,000 in sales and property tax in 10 years (Final estimate divided by 3) gives the state 100% of their money back in a span of 10 years. The next 20 years, everything the state collects from that new stadium would be gravy. The 53 man roster that has state taken out also disappears if the team leaves, how does the team reap all the benefits? 

 

If the state gives the team money AND tax breaks, that's on the state. That is a discounted property tax rate and regular sales tax (citizens pay) on team tickets (not including merchandise bought on gameday, concession, and other things) The economists have NO way to explain that away, tax is collected for the state. God only knows what some of these multi million dollar salaries get taken by the state, not including federal government. If you pretend tax doesn't exist, you can make the argument it's not worth it.

Edited by Pantherzack179812

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@Pantherzack179812 I see your reasoning. But I just want to point out that, of the Charlotte sales tax, 4.75% is the state's, 2% is the county+city and .5% is for public transportation. 7.25% is not all NC state revenue.  https://www.avalara.com/taxrates/en/state-rates/north-carolina/cities/charlotte.html

And of "property" taxes, the largest and what you are talking to are real property taxes They are levied, collected and used by the localities not the state. "There is no state property tax in North Carolina, which means tax rates are determined entirely by local governments."    https://smartasset.com/taxes/north-carolina-property-tax-calculator

Unless you're using the term "state" to cover all government entities which is just weird and therefore doesn't cover how a city or county alone will recoup their money.

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