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NanuqoftheNorth

Explosion in Beirut Lebanon

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6 minutes ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

seems racist to dismiss local media reports offhand, lending those reports the same degree of credibility as the (to this point) completely unfounded suggestion of terrorism as made by racist white americans who couldn’t point to lebanon on a map.

Dude. Get your politics out of this poo I don’t want to hear your sorry ass point of view. Grow the Fug up. Nobody, Besides a few individuals have even made a geopolitically association thus far. Frankly, in my opinion it’s far more likely in that field Israel was behind this. But geopolitical assumptions without any actual backing has no place in this discussion. 
 

I don’t like you. You don’t like me. That’s fine. We can play all day in your 2020 thread. But seriously. 

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12 minutes ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

seems racist to dismiss local media reports offhand, lending those reports the same degree of credibility as the (to this point) completely unfounded suggestion of terrorism as made by racist white americans who couldn’t point to lebanon on a map.

If NoN and I can get along on a subject. I’m sure you aren’t so low and egotistical you can’t at least have a modicum of decency. Or maybe you are. 

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4 minutes ago, Harbingers said:

Dude. Get your politics out of this poo I don’t want to hear your sorry ass point of view. Grow the Fug up. Nobody, Besides a few individuals have even made a geopolitically association thus far. Frankly, in my opinion it’s far more likely in that field Israel was behind this. But geopolitical assumptions without any actual backing has no place in this discussion. 
 

I don’t like you. You don’t like me. That’s fine. We can play all day in your 2020 thread. But seriously. 

you made the assumption. right now there is no better source than lebanese media and early reports suggest the fire was the result of a welding accident. you dismissed that offhand, treating those reports as credibly as the ramblings of racist white americans who can’t point to lebanon on a map crying “terrorism”. while initial reports don’t always hold up, in this case it does seem racist for a white american to casually dismiss them. it seems like a perfectly reasonable explanation offered by those actually on the ground rather than some rich white american failson

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32 minutes ago, Harbingers said:

I know you’re well connected in DC and don’t wanna ask specifics but do you know for a fact it was 2.7 or is that just guesstimates so far.

13 barrels X 500 pounds each would be over 3 tons. But that includes blasting gel, diesel fuel, and other chemicals. I'm not sure anyone knows the exact weight of the ammonium nitrate used (or would share such information publicly). But that also raises the point that the Oklahoma City bomb included a shaped charge, a timed detonator, and several hundred pounds of high explosive to get the ANFO to detonate all at once to increase power and brisance.

The good news, if there is any in this instance, is that a bunch of the ANFO in the dock probably burned off in the fire before the explosion. If all of the Beirut ammonium nitrate had been rigged to detonate all at once...I can't even fathom. Exponentially worse than what we saw.

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4 minutes ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

you made the assumption. right now there is no better source than lebanese media and early reports suggest the fire was the result of a welding accident. you dismissed that offhand, treating those reports as credibly as the ramblings of racist white americans who can’t point to lebanon on a map crying “terrorism”. while initial reports don’t always hold up, in this case it does seem racist for a white american to casually dismiss them. it seems like a perfectly reasonable explanation offered by those actually on the ground rather than some rich white american failson

I have made no assumption. You have tried to implant that in your own version of events. For a welding spark to set that off would take unbelievable negligence, seriously. That’s like finding a needle in a trillion pieces of straw. I know you have no idea how welding works but the amount of dangerous poo they work with regularly for this to spark something? It would take the equivalent of giving a two year old a welding torch with a few open containers of gas around. 
 

And again your fugging petty fugging egotistical poo is useless and unworthy of discussion. I at no point in this discussion have even suggested what you are saying. So check yourself. This isn’t your fugging make believe fantasy ground. Go back and read the thread. If you want to direct this energy at the people who have brought it up do so. 
 

It is insane you’d believe a mass media source of witness reports over actual witness reports thus far. Get your politics out of this poo. That’s the same thing I’d say to anyone pushing Hezbollah as the reason right now.  

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Times is reporting thats the correct weight.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/05/world/middleeast/beirut-explosion.html?referringSource=articleShare

 

 

Quote

The Russian-owned, Moldovan-registered ship, the Rhosus, arrived in Beirut in November 2013, just under two months after it had left Georgia en route for the port of Beira in Mozambique. Lebanese port officials discovered “significant faults” on the ship and prevented it from continuing its journey, according to an account by lawyers for the ship’s crew published in 2015.

The ship’s Russian captain gave an interview on Wednesday with Radio Free Europe, challenging parts of the account provided by Lebanese officials, saying there was nothing wrong with the ship and that it was held for failure to pay port dues.

The vessel’s owner was identified as Igor Grechushkin, a Russian businessman living in Cyprus, but he appeared to abandon the ship soon after it ran into trouble, prompting a lengthy legal and diplomatic dispute.

The ship’s captain and several crew members were at first forced by the Lebanese authorities to remain on board. They told the authorities that they worried about the danger to their safety from the ship’s cargo, 2,750 tons of ammonium nitrate.

They were allowed to leave in 2015. That left Lebanese officials in charge of the deadly cargo, which by then had been moved into storage on a wharf at the Beirut port.

 

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4 minutes ago, Captroop said:

13 barrels X 500 pounds each would be over 3 tons. But that includes blasting gel, diesel fuel, and other chemicals. I'm not sure anyone knows the exact weight of the ammonium nitrate used (or would share such information publicly). But that also raises the point that the Oklahoma City bomb included a shaped charge, a timed detonator, and several hundred pounds of high explosive to get the ANFO to detonate all at once to increase power and brisance.

The good news, if there is any in this instance, is that a bunch of the ANFO in the dock probably burned off in the fire before the explosion. If all of the Beirut ammonium nitrate had been rigged to detonate all at once...I can't even fathom. Exponentially worse than what we saw.

Agreed. That fire ball though. Something went boom at the same time. 

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Posted (edited)

Here it is, in storage, apparently:

ySdKpPD.jpg

 

 

Edited by Bronn

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Bronn said:

Here it is, in storage, apparently:

ySdKpPD.jpg

 

 

Looks about right except like cap said, most of that was likely already burning off. There would have been a ripple effect if that went off. There was something else, something the Lebanese government doesn’t want to bring up yet.

For all that to go at once like its said there would have to be an ignition source. Not just a simple fire burning.

Edited by Harbingers

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Posted (edited)

I'm still looking into video/reading reports, but the scenario I am seeing is:

A fire breaks out at the fireworks factory, which is in close enough proximity to the poorly stored AN.

Before that fire can be contained, it sets off a chain reaction of explosions (can be seen building up in video right before the AN is detonated.)

The explosions at the fireworks factory trigger the AN and, because of how it was stored, ignite it all pretty much at once.

 

I'm almost 100% on board the industrial accident/criminal negligence take. But, the conspiracy theorist in me realizes that this could be very convenient for certain people and from multiple angles. So maybe there is a SMALL chance that there were bad actors involved.

Edited by Bronn

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14 minutes ago, Harbingers said:

I have made no assumption. You have tried to implant that in your own version of events

i directly cited lebanese media and you treated it as equal to racist white americans accusing hezbollah. seems racist to me.

16 minutes ago, Harbingers said:

For a welding spark to set that off would take unbelievable negligence, seriously.

it would take “unbelievable negligence” for a welding accident to result in a fire? and you took a 6 figure salary from the IBB???? jesus christ

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2 minutes ago, Bronn said:

I'm still looking into video/reading reports, but the scenario I am seeing is:

A fire breaks out at the fireworks factory, which is in close enough proximity to the poorly stored AN.

Before that fire can be contained, it sets off a chain reaction of explosions (can be seen building up in video right before the AN is detonated.)

The explosions at the fireworks factory trigger the AN and, because of how it was stored, ignite it all pretty much at once.

 

I'm almost 100% on board the industrial accident/criminal negligence take. But, the conspiracy theorist in me realizes that this could be very convenient for certain people and from multiple angles. So maybe there is a SMALL chance that there were bad actors involved.

I’m still not buying the fireworks angle. The slomo shots do not look like fireworks. They look like military grade flash bangs. They are not flying out of the circle of smoke but going off right at the edge. When you watch any fireworks Catastrophe video from Mexico there is a clear difference. 

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6 minutes ago, Harbingers said:

Looks about right except like cap said, most of that was likely already burning off. There would have been a ripple effect if that went off. There was something else, something the Lebanese government doesn’t want to bring up yet.

For all that to go at once like its said there would have to be an ignition source. Not just a simple fire burning.

According to this article it can be ignited by an intense enough fire

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2020/08/05/what-is-ammonium-nitrate-and-how-did-it-devastate-beirut/#266d30510f4a

Quote

While not used as an industrial explosive on its own, ammonium nitrate is unstable and at high temperatures it decomposes into nitrogen dioxide gas and water vapor. Again, it is a relatively low-energy explosion, but dangerous when large amounts are involved. It is reckoned to be about 40% as powerful as TNT. According to the Lebanese Prime Minister, some 2,700 tons of ammonium nitrate were stored in dockside warehouse in Beirut, having been confiscated, so the resulting blast might have been almost equivalent to a one-kiloton weapon. The seismic waves recorded were equal to a magnitude 3.3 earthquake.

 

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Posted (edited)

The welding spark ignited something at the fireworks factory, right?

I mean the heat alone from a burning building nearby, paired with ignition of some sort of stored incendiary substances in the factory, should be enough to make the AN volatile.

With the way it was stored, if some of it went, it likely all went at once.

Edited by Bronn

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